Posted on 02/14/2016 3:07:53 PM PST by NYer
I understand why Catholics belive the as they do.
I take all your comments seriously.
I accept the fact that Catholics think differently than we do and wish you to be well on your way to become born again and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ
I would not mock you but point you to the truth that God has laid out for all to understand and follow
Yes Rich I wish for you to have the peace that passes all understanding
So with your new knowledge, what significance would you understand 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 to have toward the notion of presuming one IS saved, delivered?
There are several verses that aid my understanding. One such passage is from 1 Samuel 16:6-7.
“And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the Lord’s anointed is before him. But the Lord said unto Samuel, look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:6-7 KJV
We can presume whether or not one is saved based on outward appearance, but the Lord knows because He looketh on the heart.
As for myself, I am saved if I remain a steadfast Thessalonian and do not become a stupid Galatian who ends in the flesh.
Galatians 5:13-26 speaks to my heart:
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, asciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
At this point, many catholics and Mormons cite the Pauline passage where Paul tells his audience to 'work out your own salvation in fear and trembling.' To apply this passage as a contradiction to many other passages where Paul rsts upon the Promise of as something God will do as His Grace toward the believer, the faither, well, that is typical of works based religions. Sorry. But perhaps you have different passages in mind that tell you it is up to you tomake sure God's Promise is kept?
But perhaps you have different passages in mind that tell you it is up to you to make sure God’s Promise is kept?
Without going to different passages, I can summarize what I believe as follows:
God knows who are the sheep and who are the goats even before we are born; He will give His promise to the sheep and keep it; He will not give His Promise to the goats.
If you doubt that it ticks God off, I present to you the specter of the seven years of Tribulation, as God dealing with those who HAVE rejected His Salvation in the now and rested upon the belief that God said it, I accept it, He will do it as He has Promised and nothing can stop Him.
And yet the Bible tells us that God HAS DELIVERED from the wrath to come, meaning He has already given deliverance to His sheep.
You were asking what I understand and what I believe. I agree that the Bible tells us that God has delivered us from the wrath. As Paul writes about those in the light:
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
Perhaps I was thinking in terms of those who have not been born. For those of us who are awake or asleep, it should be:
God knows who are in the light (sheep) and who are in the dark (goats); He gave His promise to those in the light and kept it; He did not give His Promise to those in the dark.
If I was born from above back in 1971 did I cease to be delivered when I sinned subsequent to my being born from above?
Do you believe I must then earn my way back to being delivered from the wrath to come?
Since your catechisms declare it presumption to believe I was born from above back there in 1871, when will I be delivered from the wrath to come?
Um make that 1971, not 1871 ... Salvation is laughing now. She dismisses any7thing I post because she finds a typo here and there. She even took the time to write that to me in freepmail. So, here’s another chuckle for you, lady.
If I was born from above back in 1971 did I cease to be delivered when I sinned subsequent to my being born from above?
Do you believe I must then earn my way back to being delivered from the wrath to come?
No, I do not believe that one must earn their way back if they sin.
If I can use the allegory of being in the light, my belief is that when I sin, a cloud forms that darkens the light. But if I am sincerely sorry for my sin not from fear of the consequences but out of love for the Lord, and I ask God’s forgiveness, my God who loves me more than I love myself will forgive me and remove that cloud of darkness.
That's exactly correct and so far is has worked perfectly...no Pope has ever erred in matters of faith and morals....never will.
Oh goodie, now we have predestination....sheesh
Apparently, you do not have ...
Thank you for posting this. Beautiful. I somehow missed it when originally posted.
I suppose I should be thankful for the rancor it generated (simply for being an affirmation of the Church apparently). Without the rancor by the usual suspects though, I never would have seen it.
Funny how that works. So thanks also to all who wish to only denegrate Catholicism. You helped me (and others) see the OP tonight. And be blessed.
I suggest the current Pope has indeed done so, as far as morals go.
Oh goodie, now we have predestination....sheesh
God knew even before we are born. According to Romans 8:28-29, “For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined he also called; and those he called he also justified; and those he justified he also glorified.
Of course not, God doesn't determine winners and losers before they are born. Salvation is a gift, but we are certainly free to reject it.
you'd be wrong, he changed no church teachings at all concerning morals.
I would help you understand the passage, but I know gow you would receive it. BTW, God sees the end from the beginning because all of dimension time is available to God all the time. LOL
We all wish that, not just for Rich, but for every person on earth. That is God's wish too, but it is just not His decree.
Oh?
John 17:12
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Just WHEN does ROME teach that Judas was 'doomed'?
Esther 4:14 Who knows if perhaps you were made queen for just such a time as this?"
Romans 9:17
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up,
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