God Is Three

Grace to You.org ^ | 1997 | John MacArthur, Grace Community Church

[metmom]

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all" (2 Corinthians 13:14).

Though there is only one God, He exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

God is one, but He exists in three distinct Persons. We call this the Trinity, a contraction of "tri-unity," meaning "three in one." The word Trinity doesn't appear in the Bible, but God's existence as three Persons in one God is clear from Scripture.

Old Testament evidence of God's plurality can be found in the very first verse: "In the beginning God . . ." (Gen. 1:1). The Hebrew word used for God is Elohim, which is a plural noun. Isaiah 42:1 speaks of the Messiah: "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations." The Messiah says in Isaiah 48:16, "The Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit."

The New Testament is more explicit about God's triune nature. After Jesus' baptism, the Spirit of God descended upon Him as a dove, and the Father said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased" (Matt. 3:17). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are together in the same scene.

Jesus says, "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth" (John 14:16-17). Paul closes 2 Corinthians by saying, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all" (13:14). Peter declares that believers are chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:2).

So God is one, but God is three. This is a profound mystery that no human illustration can adequately describe and no scientific explanation can prove. The Trinity is something we have to take on faith, because God has taught it in Scripture.

Suggestions for Prayer

Praise God that He is so far above our finite understanding, yet has chosen to reveal Himself to us.

For Further Study

Read John 14-16.

What does Jesus teach about His relationship with the Father and the Spirit? What do you learn here about the different functions or ministries of each member of the Trinity?

[Thales Miletus]

If you believe God’s Word then we can go further, with a Physics lesson.

Joseph Heller would be proud. In order for you to explain the "Trinity" I first need to assent to a belief in this "Godhead". And you propose to do it in the form of a Physics lesson.

Do you know what the term agnostic means?

[MHGinTN]

Yes, I know well what ‘agnostic’ means. You’ve stepped past the first point. Would you like to continue?

[delchiante]

Quote-Do you know what the term agnostic means?

Not to speak for MHGinTn, but I heard it explained once that an agnostic doesn’t know the meaning of life and doesn’t know if there is a Creator with a plan for the universe..

Different than an a-theist who is one without God, an a-gnostic is one without knowledge..

An atheist at least has a world view and a religion that focuses not on the meaning of life but a philosophy on how it all originates and that religion of evolution comforts them.

It allows an atheist to explain how we all got here without having to be responsible to a Creator.

As an agnostic, you aren’t even at that point.

Am I close?

[Thales Miletus]

We know from history that Noah preceded the tower of Babel.

Only if you believe the Bible.

Any number of cultures have flood myths. The Maasai of Africa have an amazing one about a couple saved by a ship, they wee directed by God to bring animals and seeds. They release a dove to determine if the water has receded. Does this sound at all familiar?

In India Lord Vishnu tells a man to collect all the grains in the world and the animals to preserve them.

[Thales Miletus]

You’ve stepped past the first point. Would you like to continue?

Sure back to my original question: So where did the Son come from? If we accept the necessity of a highest power why was/ is there a need for a second equal power and certainly why the need for a third co-equal power? How and why did these second and third powers come to be?

[Thales Miletus]

Am I close?

I am probably closest to the Second or third definition of agnostic. I can not say either that there is a God or that there isn't.
noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
3. a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic:

I must admit I never heard anyone describe Atheism as a religion before

[DouglasKC]

There is a spurious addition to scripture added much later in order to justify the trinity doctrine. If this is so; why is it STILL in English translations of the Bible?

It's not in most modern ones. Essentially the new king james and of course the king james. 1 John 5:7 doesn't appear in any ancient manuscripts. I know someone is going to try and pull out a history or trail of evidence about this verse appearing as early as 200 AD but even that chart is bogus on the early dates.

[delchiante]

We all exhibit faith Thales and atheism takes almost more faith than a believer in the Creator of the Universe. The universe and its unfathomable order is just not an accident. And humanity shows daily how we devolve.

Let me show you how kooky I am -
I don’t believe today is Tiw’s day,but most in the world,at least the English speaking world, do. Both groups (me in the minority) do it by faith.
My faith is in His Word and His Creation and both,coupled together,lead me to see Tiw’s day as ‘false’ .
‘The other group shows faith in Rome and their Pope Gregory calendar and their computer,phone,newspaper,TV, countries, all say its Tiw’s day.

And I would argue that is misplaced faith :) (faith I used to share)

Without even thinking about it. Faith that somebody before them knew what they were doing when assembling a calendar. Why 7 days, why not 10? Well, because the bible says 7. Why the days of the week we have today? Well,because it is just the way it is..

Why 10 Commandments?because those were the ten given to Moses and Israel
And I can assure anyone that no man, or assembly of men, came up with the 10 Commandments- no man, or group of men, would use the first 4 of those 10, to worship anything but themselves..

You are seeking or peering in,as evidence you are on the forum, and His Word says ‘He is’and is a rewarder of those who seek Him..

You are being blessed and just haven’t met the Creator like lots of people have.
It is a gift that I thank Him for daily- faith in Him.

But we can show we have faith in our lives without ever acknowledging where it all comes from. Even atheists have faith.

And in my example of the calendar, it can be misplaced :) but no less faith..

It’s a muscle that I have to flex daily. it would be tough to go through life thinking the meaning of life is to get food,clothing and shelter.. Or the real meaning of life is only for better food,clothing and shelter.

His Word says trust Him and He’ll supply all your needs. I did. And He is faithful to His promises.

So because those needs are met, I am blessed to ponder the meaning of life and our purpose for being here. And His Word from Genesis to Revelation tells us.

If one lives their life where its all about them (instead of it being all about Him);

And a life, where it’s all about here (instead of all about His Kingdom of Heaven);

and a life that is all about now( instead of it all being about spending eternity with Him in His Kingdom)

then people will miss a great part of the meaning of this life..
And we see the all about ‘me,here and now’ crowd all over-
I see it creep in with me daily too..

May the Creator of little ole me (and you and all things both small and great) bless your journey to full knowledge and Truth.

Peace to you and yours

[MHGinTN]

Your question (s): So where did the Son come from? If we accept the necessity of a highest power why was/ is there a need for a second equal power and certainly why the need for a third co-equal power? How and why did these second and third powers come to be?

First, the Son did not come 'from'. Jesus addressed the issues inherent in your questions when He spoke with Philip, as related in chapter fourteen of John's Gospel.

In God there is no shadow of turning, thus any expression of God is not coming from rather coming to. That may sound strange to anyone not at least vaguely familiar with Zen. It is however a very valid perspective in a Physics sense. Let's use the analogy of Flatland to explore it.

A being living in a two variable spatial world of length and width only would not be able to sense a three variable spatial object except where it intersects the two variable realm. As a three variable object is passed through the two variable plane, a being in the two variable realm would sense something coming 'into' that realm from some other realm, but the reality of the three variable object is that it is just being itself not coming from anything just intersecting/coming to the plane it intersects.

Jesus answered Philip's request to have Jesus show the disciples The Father, by telling Philip that all they could sense of the Father Almighty is where The Father intersects their realm.

Second, The Son and The Holy Spirit are not 'second and third' powers, they are The Father almighty as expressing in differing variable realms.

The Bible includes an interesting scene in Daniel chapter five, where a hand appears in the palace party central of the resident ruler in Babylon the very night that city and empire fell to their enemies. This hand was attached to a being existing in a realm of variable expressions not sensed by the folks partying with the King, yet that hand reached into their limits realm and wrote on the wall there.

There are many aspects of that story which we could address, but let's just consider what it means for a being to be of 'another' realm of variables yet able to reach into the realm of variables of lower number of variables.

A paper dollar bill can be exchanged for four quarters of metallic money, or ten dimes, or twenty quarters. Are these metallic coins contained in the paper dollar? Of course not. We establish and exchange rate fashioning an equivalency. For our discussion, imagine that I have a ten dollar bill and I want to get change for this bill. Does my exchange source have more than the ten dollars, say as a bank? Probably. Are all the monies at this source available to me for change? Only tot he limit of my ten dollar bill!

If my exchange source has less than an equivalence for the paper money I present for change, can the source 'cash' my ten? No, it is limited to the amount it has on hand. The same may be applied to spatial/temporal realms of variable expression. A lesser calculus of variable cannot sense a greater calculus of variables beyond what the lesser has to make equivalency.

Is this making sense to you yet? Try not to jump ahead, and anticipate where I may be going with this. Just consider the foundational principles inherent in this next point to ponder; we'll step beyond this point when the data is clear.

[MHGinTN]

Thought you might find the discussion from here and following ... interesting. Ping pong

[MHGinTN]

A paper dollar bill can be exchanged for four quarters of metallic money, or ten dimes, or twenty quarters. Make that twenty nickles so we don't break the bank ...

[winodog]

I am trying to follow along with your 1+6+1 teaching and 30-60-100. Is tomorrow the first day of the twelfth month or Adar I? And this is the year an extra month is added = Adar II.
Which is a good calendar to use?

[Thales Miletus]

Second, The Son and The Holy Spirit are not 'second and third' powers, they are The Father almighty as expressing in differing variable realms.

So am I correct in my understanding that you are saying there are not three separate equal persons, but one person, that is expressed differently at different times or places?

This seems in direct opposition to things said up thread. several people have said that this God is 3 separate equal people, one person said something to the effect that the son and the father are separate but equal, and the "spirit" is not God or even god.

[Elsie]

People would call the popes 'antichrist' and yet still not wonder what that says about the Pope Gregory 'antichrist' calendar that the world works and worships from..no testing or proving of all things is dangerous.

All Greg did was to skip ahead twelve DATES to bring the calendar more in line with the seasons.

---

 

The calendar was a refinement to the Julian calendar^[4] amounting to a 0.002% correction in the length of the year. The motivation for the reform was to bring the date for the celebration of Easter to the time of the year in which it was celebrated when it was introduced by the early Church. Because the celebration of Easter was tied to the spring equinox, the Roman Catholic Church considered the steady drift in the date of Easter caused by the year being slightly too long to be undesirable. The reform was adopted initially by the Catholic countries of Europe. Protestants and Eastern Orthodox countries continued to use the traditional Julian calendar and adopted the Gregorian reform after a time, for the sake of convenience in international trade. The last European country to adopt the reform was Greece, in 1923.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Which is a good calendar to use?

One where the moon is forced to orbit the earth in exactly 28 days.

---

Indiana once tried to set the value of PI to 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

[Elsie]

Which is a good calendar to use?

or the earth to orbit the sun in exactly 360 days.

[Elsie]

Why doesn’t the New Year start on the December solstice??

That’s when the Sun starts to climb back North...

[MHGinTN]

So am I correct in my understanding that you are saying there are not three separate equal persons, but one person, that is expressed differently at different times or places? We are still at point two. What you ask is not yet addressed. 'Times and places' are functions of time AND space; we haven't gotten into time yet. But here is a hint: the 'three' notion is represented many places in the Bible; if you go back to the beginning of time and space, all of these three are yet to be expressed/identified by their functioning, so they are One.

[delchiante]

Tomorrow would be the 1st day of the 12th month. I guess they call it Adar 1. I just number them.

There is an extra month(13th)this year. To catch the moon up with the sun. If you look at a Gregorian, you will see Passover and Easter in two different gregorian months this year because of it. (Passover will be later than it was last year because of it- so will the other Feasts by a little)

That visual can be seen in the last two years of the woman ‘clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet’-revelation 12:1

That sign occurred on the evening of
September 26, 2014.
It represents the true Rosh Hoshanah (1st day of 7th month). Not what the Gregorian calendar said it was

That sign was not seen at Rosh Hashanah in 2015 though. It could be observed on October 14 2015.
That day would be the 1st day of the 8th month, not the 7th month in 2015.

A month later because an extra month will need to be added to have the moon catch up to the solar part of the luni-solar calendar.

It seems to happen every three years.

The sign of the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet will be back at Rosh Hashanah (1st day of 7th month in 2016)

That sign in Revelation 12:1 is a great way to see how His gospel is in His Sky, at His Feasts. Even unbelievers might say, hmm, interesting.

As for a calendar, I just use a Gregorian and write over it. And 1 New Moon Day(tomorrow) +6 work days, +1 Sabbath=8 and the 8th day will fall on the same gregorian day as the New Moon Day for 4 weeks.. So, a wednesday for 4 equal weeks of 6+1. The 7th Days (8th,15th,22nd,29th will all fall on a Wednesday)

Then that last Wednesday (March 9th) people
of all faiths (Muslims,Jews and Christians) around the world will look for the new sliver. There are people who do this-
And I don’t worry about it not being seen in Jerusalem because they proved to me in 2014 not to be in tune with the signs that He gives us in His Word and Creation.

But it is combining His Word and His sun,moon and stars in a way that has shown me so much that won’t be seen by following 6+1..

Feel free to send a private or a public reply if it seems off. It is the practical exercise of 1+6+1, once He showed me what a New Moon Day is, that blossomed into spiritual Truth that religion can teach yet.

It is all about Him. A daily, weekly,monthly commemoration of His Creative and Redemptive Work. And I know what He did each day of Creation by heart and I couldn’t say the same thing four years ago. And it isn’t a small thing.
I even had to learn why the Heavens and Earth were created before His first Day and not on His 1st Day, like I just had ingrained in my mind.

Which is another reason He teaches a 1 in front of the 6 work days.

I had to unlearn a lot. Still am..

Blessings on your study and journey!

[delchiante]

His New Year or the pope’s New year?

His Word says the beginning of months will come in the spring -Exodus 12:2

2000 years ago,the sun was traveling through the ‘Ram/Adult Lamb’ at His Passover.

Today, the sun is traveling through the ‘Two fish’ at Passover.

Old and New Testament witnessed to the world of believers and unbelievers above our heads.

Same kind of awesome Old Testament and New Testament signs occur(ed) overhead in the Fall for His Fall Feasts.

2000 years ago, the sun traveled through the ‘scale’
And now its the ‘woman’.

Spring
Ram- passover then
Two Fish-Passover now

Fall
Scale- Atonement then
Woman- Atonement then

Coming up some day:
Spring
Water bearer

Fall
Lion

Old Testament
Passover Lamb and the scales leveled Atonement for sin.

New Testament
The Fishers of Men and the Bride/Church

Future
Spring-I will pour out my flesh on all flesh

Fall- return of the Lion from the Tribe of Judah

The reason January 1st is the ‘new year’ for the world, I suspect,is because it is 8 days from December 25.

And Torah says Jewish boys are to be circumcised on the 8th day.

When they chose/stole/co-opted december 25 for the birthday of Jesus, January 1st is the 8th day and had to be ‘holy’.

People all over the world take that day off and celebrate Rome’s new year, but really unknowningly,commemorate the day Jesus was circumcised, according to Rome’s catechism and calendar..
(He was circumcised on an appointed day but it wasn’t January 1st)

February 2nd isn’t as ‘holy’ but that Roman Holy day commemorates when Jesus was presented in the temple, 40 days after His birth according to Rome’s catechism and calendar.

Elsie, now I am wondering if I even answered your question :)

Don’t let anyone ever say Rome doesn’t know Torah. They know enough to be dangerous..
:)