Posted on 01/26/2016 7:32:29 PM PST by ebb tide
Yes, and I have a lot more where they came from. I've posted various portions of the collection before, and usually get the same response from Catholics: silence.
Peter’s ossuary was not “confirmed” in Jerusalem. An ossuary was found in Jerusalem which may read “Simon bar Jonah” or “Shimon Barzillai” or something else. The writing is not clear, as Milik himself stated explicitly:
“The reading of the patronym, as luck would have it, is not sure. The reading proposed in Liber Annuus III, p. 162 (YWNH) remains possible, but other possibilities for it can equally be proposed, such as ZYNH corresponding to Zena of n. 21.”
http://www.uhl.ac/en/projects/talpiot-tomb/shimon-barzillai/
I can’t find the ref at the moment, but I believe the bones found under St. Peter’s were studied. The ones that came from the loculus, if I remember right, were of an elderly man. In any case, the Christian literature was unanimous from the first century on that St. Peter died in Rome. A monument was built over the Vatican grave in the A.D. 170s, which is almost certainly the Tropaion of Gaius mentioned by Eusebius and probably also the memorial mentioned by the Liber Pontificalis.
Superficial? How many Calvinists say Mass? How many are bishops? How many keep the feasts of the martyrs? How many found religious orders? I don’t think the Puritans regarded them as superficial.
No Christian has any right to take one Church Father and inflate him into the ne plus ultra of doctrinal purity. Even if Augustine believed the same as you on grace (which I find absurd by the way, since Orange and Trent based their anathemas on his formulations), he must be viewed in the context of the teaching of the entire Church, which includes the Greek, Syriac, and desert Fathers.
You say I’m the one hung up on appearance, and it’s actually the opposite. You want to play “Augustinian” dress-up and march around pretending that you are 100% in line with one of the greatest theologians of all time, when he would have excommunicated you without a second thought.
I’ve read the City of God, the Confessions, and Possidius’s biography. I’ve done special studies on his Literal Interpretation of Genesis, and his collected liturgical quotations as compiled by Bishop in the 1920s. My position is based on a solid understanding of who the man was and what he thought, not cherry-picked quotations filtered through Calvin’s Institutes.
If there’s a group today that can claim the “Augustinian” mantle, it’s the Catholic monks and nuns who live his rule.
I will pray for you.
Fighting with fellow Christians and being divisive is sad. God bless you.
“Who in the world was Martin Luther to demand of the Catholic Church anything? What position of authority did he hold?”
Search the Scriptures NK. your answer is there.
It does. When the body has cancer, it is cut out. non-Roman churches separate themselves from apostate groups. Those fellowships, which are like those in Revelation - their candle-stick has been removed - die a slow death. This happens apart from the Body of Christ where is can't spread in our fellowships.Some differences in fellowships are simply non-essential beliefs that are protestant rites. They agree and fellowship around the core truths of the faith.
Contrast this with the Roman model of containing cancer within the churches and where everyone believes whatever they want, regardless of what is taught. Cancer continues to spread inside the Roman church.
Also, are YOU the judge of what is pure and what is not pure? Who appointed you the "pure" judge? I thought that was God's bailiwick.
God specifies the Gospel of Grace. Those who entrust themselves to Christ's sacrifice for all their sins - apart from their own efforts at self-righteousness - are His. It does not matter what chuch they fellowship at.Those who are caught up in their own works and useless religion are not His.
Search the Scriptures. There you will find an answer.
And who are YOU to call ALL the popes, from Peter onward, "sycretic pagans"? YOU appoint YOURSELF as their judge? Wow, that is ego. You've made yourself god.
I did not.Taking God at His word is not making oneself equal to God. It is acknowledging He alone is the authority on all matters in the church.
Peter was not a Pope, as this is not a NT Church office.
He was a flawed, but godly man God used.
As time went on, exactly what Paul and John warned about happened. As Rome expanded, the Roman church incorporated pagan practices - not found in the NT church anywhere - to make pagans feel at home. By the time of Luther, the Roman church was far from God's teachings in the Scripture. It remains so in practice today.
May God bless and keep you, son.
Back at you.
Live links are needed
Live links? Would you promise to use them and read the materials??? I didn’t think so ...
The problem, one explanation for the silence, would be on two levels.
“Tradition” admits of modification and development and of respectfulnreading of people with parts of whose work (or lives) we disagree. Chrysostom and Ephrem of Syria were VERY anti-semitic, yet they were very good in other things. Tertullian went off the rails, yet we read him. Some of us read Luther and Calvin!
Also, if I were a better scholar, I would go look for Augustine and Chrysostom on good works and merit and so forth. For it is written, “The large print giveth, but the small print taketh away,” and I don’t think the ways of a man with a maid or of God with a soul can be tidily explained.
I will say this. A lot of Catholics seem inordinately focussed on the small question of merit. If I had won the recent kafillion dollar lottery, I would be too busy being astounded to spend time making sure that it was clear that, ahem, I bought the ticket.
Popes with their white priestly robes and mitres would look rather like snowflakes I would imagine.
Wrong. Orthodox and Catholics share the same sacraments. I can go to an orthodox Mass and receive communion and they can do the same.
The Reformation completely broke the church apart. The 60,000 or so protestant sects do whatever in the world they feel like doing at services and everyone is there own little authority on the Bible, and they’re all right, just ask them. Millions of protestants don’t even bother going to church, they say attending Church on Sunday is not required so they’re not going.
Mind reading again? How do you know for sure?
Okay, a sample:
Something more than a sample of excerpts from Augustine and Chrysostom is needed to support your assertion that “The Catholics essentially condemned folks like Augustine or Chrysostom at the same time, who didn’t say anything substantially different than Martin Luther.”
The Catholic Church does not condemn Augustine or Chrysostom. In fact, the Church regards them as Doctors of the Church, citing them several times in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Whether the Church should condemn them for holding the same beliefs that Luther held is certainly something that can be questioned, and I’m sure several have raised that question.
But the few excerpts provided do not fully reveal what the two doctors believed.
Can you provide links to any documents that support your assertion?
Peace,
Rich
BTW, what cheese to you prefer with your whine?
This idea that “The Church” broke apart is a serious error at best. There are heretics and schismatics that broke away from the Church, but the Church never broke apart. The Catholic Church has always taught that unity is in the Catholic Church and that the Church is the Catholic Church....well until Vatican II. Now we have all sorts of Catholics believing and stating that there is division in Christ’s Church.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.