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Locked on 12/11/2015 9:03:03 AM PST by Jim Robinson, reason:
Last word on the issue at post 435. |
Posted on 12/09/2015 1:36:26 PM PST by NYer
Can a hymn cancel Christmas? Can the lyrics of a song, if true, make Christmas not true — that is to say, un-real? Oh, yes!
Now, it is a given that honorable people may disagree about which piece of music is more suitable to reverence the birth of Christ. (I myself prefer Handel’s Messiah to “The Little Drummer Boy.â€) And while there are any number of “secular†Christmas songs that ignore Christ altogether, they are just distractions. What I have in mind is a song that, if taken seriously, makes impossible what Christians celebrate at Christmas. I might even call that song a “hymn†because I once heard it sung in a parish at Christmas Eve Mass. I am writing about it now for that reason, and also because I’ve heard so many Catholics speak so effusively about it, especially when it is sung at Christmas masses. I’m speaking of a song made popular by former American Idol star Clay Aiken: “Mary Did You Know?â€
While the song has the merits of prompting its hearers to reflect on Mary beholding her Divine Son, lines from the very first stanza actually bring Christmas to a screeching halt. Here are the problematic lyrics:
“Did you know that your Baby Boy has come to make you new? This Child that you delivered will soon deliver you.â€
Now, those lines make sense if Mary is another sinner just like us, who needs to be delivered from sin. You see, if Mary is a sinner who like us needs a savior, then the lyricist’s play on the word “deliver†(sense 1: “deliver†= “give birthâ€; sense 2: “deliver†= “liberate from sinâ€) is both clever and theologically sound. But if Mary is a sinner in need of a savior, then she cannot be the worthy vessel in whom the All-Holy God takes on human nature as the Word-Made-Flesh. In other words the lyrics depend upon the dogma of the Immaculate Conception being false. If Mary needs a Savior, then she cannot be the vessel of the Incarnation. And “No-Incarnation†= “No-Christmas.†How ironic that a song sung with so much gusto as a Christmas hymn logically precludes what it claims to celebrate!
Let’s take a look at the Apostolic Constitution, Ineffabilis Deus, promulgated by Pope Pius IX on December 8, 1854, which defined the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Pius begins by summarizing this ancient doctrine: “From the very beginning, and before time began, the eternal Father chose and prepared for his only begotten Son a mother in whom the Son of God would become incarnate and from whom, in the blessed fullness of time, he would be born into this world.†Mary was not, and could not have been, just any woman, just any sinner, selected by God to be the mother of His Only Begotten Son.
Pius reflects on the dogma of the Immaculate Conception in a way that shows that sound theology can be eloquent, even poetic:
The Virgin Mother of God would not be conceived by Anna before grace would bear its fruits; it was proper that she be conceived as the first-born, by whom ‘the first-born of every creature’ would be conceived. They testified too that the flesh of the Virgin, although derived from Adam, did not contract the stains of Adam, and that on this account the most Blessed Virgin was the tabernacle created by God himself and formed by the Holy Spirit … she is beautiful by nature and entirely free from all stain; that at her Immaculate Conception she came into the world all radiant like the dawn. For it was certainly not fitting that this vessel of election should be wounded by the common injuries, since she, differing so much from the others, had only nature in common with them, not sin. In fact, it was quite fitting that, as the Only Begotten has a Father in heaven, whom the Seraphim extol as thrice holy, so he should have a Mother on earth who would never be without the splendor of holiness.
How much more beautiful, sublime, and awe-inspiring is the Immaculate Conception as the prelude to Christmas — far more so than the well-intentioned but erroneous sentimentality of the lyrics of “Mary Did You Know?â€
Pius sums up the dogma of the Immaculate Conception with this definition:
We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.
We are now in the second week of Advent. Prepared or not, we will soon find ourselves in the Christmas season. To find the truth of Christmas, to find the great gift of God which is the real “reason for the season,†we cannot avoid, forget or deny the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. No piece of music, not even Handel’s Messiah can express all of the wonder of Incarnation and the glory of Christmas. Silly, secular songs can distract us from Christmas. Some songs, like “Mary Did You Know,†even if very affecting in a sentimental way, actually preclude Christmas. This Christmas season, let’s give our family and friends the gift of Christmas truth. “O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!â€
Well we look forward to when you receive grace....
Kecharitomene.
Yep, fighting over tick-tacky stuff.
Biblically, there is nobody without sin. The only human ever without sin was Jesus himself. That’s why his death on the cross was the most perfect sacrifice for us and we have been redeemed by him.
It’s all very simple really, but like any other cult or belief, you can slap them upside the head with truth all day and it won’t matter. Pray and let the Holy Spirit do his work. The actual amount saved will not be a high number. As a kid I couldn’t get that, now I do however.
Catholics and Protestants can argue all day long about the idea of The Immaculate Conception, but the wedding of Cana is not evidence of sin on Mary’s part. You cannot assume that Mary asked Jesus to make wine out of water just to “show off “ the powers of her divine son. Perhaps she just wanted the wedding guests to have more wine. Sinless or not there is no way for you living some 2000 plus years after the fact to claim to know what was in Mary’s heart when she made that request. Jesus’ rebuke to her was possibly just a way to tell her that it wasn’t his time to perform miracles yet. But then again maybe it was time....as he did do as his mother told him.
Right after the words “sola scriptura.”
Perhaps a visit to Lourdes France would help you understand the words of the Blessed Mother.
The Lady says her name: “Que soy era Immaculada Counceptiou”
Le 25 mars 1858, jour de la seizième apparition, Bernadette se rend à la Grotte où, à l’initiative de l’abbé Peyramale, curé de Lourdes, elle demande à “la Dame” de dire son nom. Par trois fois, Bernadette pose la question. A la quatrième demande, “la Dame” lui répond en patois : “Que soy era Immaculada Counceptiou”, ce qui veut dire en français “Je suis l’Immaculée Conception”. Bernadette n’a pas compris immédiatement le sens de cette parole. L’Immaculée Conception, tel que l’enseigne l’Église, c’est “Marie conçue sans péché, grâce aux mérites de la Croix du Christ” (définition du dogme promulgué en 1854). Bernadette se rend aussitôt chez Monsieur le Curé pour lui transmettre le nom de “la Dame”. Il comprend que c’est la Mère de Dieu qui apparaît à la Grotte. Plus tard, l’évêque de Tarbes, Mgr Laurence, authentifiera cette révélation.
http://en.lourdes-france.org/deepen/message-lourdes
On March 25, 1858, day of the Sixteenth apparition, Bernadette goes to the Grotto where, at the initiative of Abbot Peyramale, priest of Lourdes, she asks “the Lady” to tell his name. Three times Bernadette asked the question. At the fourth request, “the Lady” responds in dialect “Que soy era Immaculada Counceptiou” which means in French “I am the Immaculate Conception”. Bernadette does not understand immediately the meaning of this word. The Immaculate Conception, as taught by the Church, is “Mary conceived without sin, through the merits of the Cross of Christ” (definition of the dogma promulgated in 1854). Bernadette goes immediately to the priest to pass it the name of “the Lady”. He understands that it is the Mother of God that appears at the Grotto. Later, Tarbes Bishop Laurence, authenticate this revelation.
The testimony of Scripture about this is clear. Hebrews says that Christ was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sinning (Heb. 4:15). Christ challenged his adversaries to prove that he had sinned and they could not (John 8:46). As the apostle Paul put it, "For our sake he made him [Christ] to be sin, who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Cor. 5:21, cf. 1 Pet. 2:22, 1 John 3:5). He is a high priest unlike any other who is "holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heaven" (Heb. 7:26). His title as the Lamb of God (John 1:29) also draws our attention to his innocence.
Therefore the human nature He received from His handmaid and mother, Mary, had to be sinless.
Fr. McTeigue says: “If Mary needs a Savior, then she cannot be the vessel of the Incarnation.”
Msgr Pope says she DOES need a Savior: “Hence we do not teach that Mary was not in need of the saving grace of Jesus Christ, for it is only by His merits that she was able to receive this gift.”
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3369729/posts
What are you gonna do?
Who brought it up in an article, and then who posted the article here?
*faceplam*
I am floored at the thought processes of people, but nothing I can say will change it. So I’ll just say this.
Have a merry Christmas and may we see greener pastures soon.
"Do whatever he tells you."
Good for us to follow that too.
Ha! My pastor was just complaining about this song. He said the song asks a question. "Mary did you know?" The answer is "Yes, she knew. An angel told her!"
.
>> Yet ever before she conceived Him in her womb, she was “full of grace” <<
.
Full of grace in the spiritual sense can only mean “full of the forgiveness of her past sins.
Grace is the forgiveness of past sins.
It can’t be a Protestant song, the Catholics are always saying that Protestants don’t honor Mary!
/sarc
I guess I'm "saved" from an infinite number of tragedies and wrong decisions that never happen in my life then?
Such a silly premise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U2G8wsbXBo
Mark Lowery sings Mary Did You Know
Maybe Mary’s words would help clear this up....
Luke 1:41-55 (NIV)
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”
And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
to Abraham and his descendants forever,
just as he promised our ancestors.”
Jesus’ response to his mother contained a pretty good attributed motive:
“Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.”
In other words, stop meddling.
.
Because that is when all of the events mentioned with regard to his birth line up.
The one thing we know for sure from Torah is that he had to be born at Tabernacles, just as he has to return at Trumpets, and he was crucified at Passover.
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