Creationist Group 'Answers in Genesis' Disputes 'Lucy' Ancestry Claim

PJ Media ^ | 11/27/2015 | BY MICHAEL T. HAMILTON

[SeekAndFind]

Earlier this week Google's logo mutated (if you will) from its usual form into a Google Doodle adorned with a series of images depicting an ape evolving into a human. Clicking the Doodle led to information about "AL 288-1," less esoterically known as "Lucy the Australopithecus," or simply "Lucy." Many scientists regard the fossil as an intermediary link between apes and humans.

The same day, Googling "lucy australopithecus controversy" turned up a different interpretation of the fossil, including several from Answers in Genesis. The apologetics ministry, which focuses primarily on whether evolution or biblical creation provides the most accurate interpretation of the universe's origins, featured several articles Answers in Genesis staff has written about Lucy. The abstract of a 2012 article titled "A Look at Lucy's Legacy," by Dr. David Menton and Dr. Elizabeth Mitchell, read:

Perhaps more than any other fossil, Lucy is presented as "exhibit A" for evolutionists in their attempt to show that humans evolved from an ape-like ancestor. With the recent opening of the Lucy exhibit in the Creation Museum, Answers in Genesis felt it was appropriate to present the "Lucy story" to our web visitors as well. This article will explore the origins of the fossils and interpretations by evolutionists that have led to overtly human-like representations of Lucy, such as at the Field Museum in Chicago, that differ so greatly from the equally valid representation at the Creation museum.

The authors went on to dispute claims as to Lucy's bipedality based on pelvic structure, the famous Laetoli footprints, and other points.

The site also featured a recent blog post by Ken Ham, the Answers in Genesis founder who debated Bill Nye ("The Science Guy") at the Creation Museum in Kentucky in 2014. Ham's article opened:

According to evolutionists, Lucy walked on two legs, and the group she represents is a distant ancestor of humanity (though how closely related is disputed even in their camp). US President Barack Obama even recently "met" Lucy and commented, almost reverently, on how she shows how all mankind is related to one another.

Ham's post included photographs of a Creation Museum exhibit demonstrating how covering Lucy's bones with different combinations of hair and skin drastically influences whether she resembles a human or an ape.

[Bob434]

[[Scripture sometimes speaks of human beings as souls]]

There ya go-

[[That does not mean the soul as separate from the body.]]

Nobody ever said it was-

Bodily life is in the soul- when the bible talks about Nephesh Chayyah death ‘living soul’ death it is talking strictly about body death- not the actual soul- This is why I asked you to read up about Nephesh Chayyah- You apparently read just the basics-

[MIA_eccl1212]

God is able to instantly change two fish into a multitude of fully prepped fish instantaneously. The whole creative process instantly bringing forth mature species in the prepared state of consumable food. He did not wait to evolve a microwave oven first. He gets things done. His way, even when logically we know it should take a season or even Years to accomplish.

Wheat, flour, yeast (little creatures that ferment air into the bread and then they die in the baking process) and the cooking process ALL completed instantly... not in days or months requiring seed and harvest and milling and kneading of doughs, ovens and fire.

Water into wine. Stars with light in motion and flowing into time and space, at the right place INSTANTLY, whenever he wants. Matter from NOTHING.. the OT word was “EX NIHLO” out of nothing... “light be” = LIGHT WAS.

God breaks what we think are his laws at will. He created what we now have discovered and call quantum physics where units of reality and building blocks of matter blink out of and into existence instantly, and to do so across the infinite measures of space, and clearly violating time and space constants in ways we can neither fully understand or define.

It is not deception that God intended when he told us it all took six days. People did not make that story up in fact and he dictated HIS words to Moses (and others in turn), verbally and in plenary, infallible terms. He did it as he said it, and he requires FAITH of us to believe it.

People don’t believe in God’s power and the fact that He does not always operate within nature’s rules. They think HE always is restricted to following nature’s laws and limits... But the truth is He can... but at times, He will walk on the water or enable someone to do so without having any specially developed technology.

He is currently holding all of creation together with the power of his own Sovereign will. People’s idea of God is too weak because his claims seem so impossible to believe.

He can instantaneously create living offspring to a human ancestor, long dead, from what are clearly to us, dead rocks, if he would so choose to do.

Jesus said that. And to the christian, that makes it so. Some folks want to be Christians and reject what Jesus Christ himself said. Some folks get it.
Some have seen his mighty power do things that are beyond explanation. There are those who do not believe if it is not explainable... like an eyeball or a limb growing back instantaneously.

Or a known dead man, walking through a barricaded door and sitting down to visit, tell a few stories, share a few smiles and hugs... and then leave the room as if he was never there except for the missing lunch items he consumed.

People who do not yet truly believe, will always ridicule those who have seen or experienced such interventions that Jesus CAN and DOES do.

It is wise for the professing believer to assume if Jesus said it... it is true even if they don’t have a clue as to how... and to do so EVERY TIME. God watches over his word to perform it. And that word is forever settled in heaven... and that eternal word, made flesh is Jesus. IF THE bible IS TO BE BELIEVED, and I for one, believe it. Even when it looks wrong on the surface.

The bible does not say time is limited to 6000 years. But it does say 6 days started it all off in the beginning. One of these days, I would not be surprised to see God give us an instant replay or even transport us back to that event so we can enjoy watching his fireworks... and then we will have fully developed minds and an understanding of HIS realms of operation, so it will make sense to us. I say play it again daddy.

Those who do NOT believe would NOT believe even if all of their dead relatives came to visit them on Christmas Eve this year and gave them proof. Those who want to believe but cannot can always say: “unless I see your proof, I will not believe” (like Thomas)... Jesus can show up with proof.

Those who say, please validate my Scientific Theory that contradicts your written word... will sit there a very long time. For the train that will never arrive.

We were created in God’s likeness and image, that is two aspects, one has to do with the essence the latter has to do with form. It should not come as a surprise that God designed mankind, as a creature suitable for His own incarnation in Christ and for the habitation of His own Holy Spirit... and with the capacity to know when faith is required, and to ask for what is yet needed to complete any aspect of faith that is intended... to any soul who would ask.

“God show me how this is true... because I am too stupid to figure this out on my own” has been a good place for me to start, more than once. And not just in matters of science... but in matters of the heart... my heart, that no one else, but He can see and fully understand.

the truth is Godly people WANT TO BELIEVE... but struggle with it.

I pray that God pours out faith in his word into the hearts of honest seekers... especially in OUR nation at THIS time in THIS Christmas season... when so much is in turmoil in the world of natural things that we can see right now... worldwide.

“Lord I believe, please help my unbelief...” is a request Jesus has obligated himself, to answer.

[vladimir998]

“There ya go-”

In other words, I was right all along and even you are admitting it. Thank you!

[vladimir998]

“No escape is needed on my part Vlad- you clearly did not do a word study on nephesh because you keep making the same mistake over and over again”

No, again, I did do the word study - more than one in fact - and you keep posting that untruth that I didn’t do it. Also, I made no mistake at all.

You need to do a word study on “bearing false witness” and “lying”.

[Bob434]

[[No, again, I did do the word study]]

Then you obviously don’t understand the term Nephesh Chayyah- Again- I’m done- I’ve explained it several times now- it is obvious you don’t understand it

[[You need to do a word study on “bearing false witness” and “lying”.]]

keep it civil Vlad- you responses showed that either you did not do a through word study or you simply don’t understand it- no one is ‘bearing false witness’ or ‘lying’ Please explain to everyone here how that animal souls live on- when you understand that soul creatures didn’t die before the fall, let me know- till then have a nice day

[Bob434]

The appearance of age may very well have a scientific explanation- Dr Humphreys has a video talking about time expansion as the universe spread out- and there seems to be some scientific evidence for it- You can find his video on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mooHSXTR2RE

[Bob434]

For everyone else- the words Nephesh Cayyah does not refer to the immortal soul of man- it refers to living souls of all higher creatures- The spirit of man or spiritual soul of man is an entirely different meaning from Nephesh Chayyah spoken of in Genesis when it refers to souls dying- The immortal soul moves on, the physical soul creature dies- The bible makes it very clear animals are considered Nephesh Chayyah- or soul creatures- Creatures given the soul of life- not the immortal soul that man enjoys in the afterlife.

This is a very important distinction, because those claiming God used billions of years to evolve creatures, or who claim life was around for billions of years during creation musty either appeal to supernatural life sustaining by God of all creatures/souls, or claim that creatures must have died- but the bible makes clear there was no death of soul creatures before the fall- Either man and creatures with souls didn’t die for billions of years, or the account of creation is talking about a literal 6 day creation period- this fact is problematic for long earth age advocates

the importance of the term Nephesh Chayyah is to illustrate the difference between man and plant, microbe, insect etc. who have no soul no nephesh Chayyah-

Biblical teaching regarding man acknowledges that he is composed of two distinct parts—the physical and the spiritual. We get an introduction to the origin of the physical portion as early as Genesis 2:7 when the text states: “Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (nephesh chayyah).” It is important to recognize both what this passage is discussing and what it is not. Genesis 2:7 is teaching that man was given physical life; it is not teaching that man was instilled with an immortal nature.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=191

The variety of terms employed in our English translations has caused some confusion as to the exact meaning of the phrase “living soul” or “living being.” Some have suggested, for example, that Genesis 2:7 is speaking specifically of man’s receiving his immortal soul and/or spirit. This is not the case, however, as a closer examination of the immediate and remote contexts clearly indicates.

“Or if A SOUL TOUCH any unclean thing, whether it be a carcass of an unclean beast, or a carcass of unclean cattle, or the carcass of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.” Leviticus 5:2

“Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine. The SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE… THE SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” Ezekiel 18: 4 & 20

Obviously Nephesh Cayyah is not talking about the immortal soul but the physical soul

[vladimir998]

“Then you obviously don’t understand the term Nephesh Chayyah- Again- I’m done- I’ve explained it several times now- it is obvious you don’t understand it”

No, clearly I do understand it. For some reason - and clearly no good one - you keep insisting what is untrue is true.

“keep it civil Vlad-”

I did. Did you do that word study on bearing false witness yet? There’s nothing uncivil about that, but to repeatedly make false claims about what someone did or did not do is uncivil and that’s exactly what you’ve have done.

“you responses showed that either you did not do a through word study or you simply don’t understand it”

No, actually nothing in what I posted showed either of those things. Your posts, however, UNDENIABLY show that you made a claim that is not true.

“- no one is ‘bearing false witness’ or ‘lying’”

If someone (and it’s not me) keeps insisting I didn’t do something that I did do, then that is undeniably doing exactly what you’re now denying. There’s no way around it.

“Please explain to everyone here how that animal souls live on-”

Please explain to everyone here where I ever claimed animal souls live on.

“when you understand that soul creatures didn’t die before the fall, let me know- till then have a nice day”

When you understand what bearing false witness means let me know.

[Bodleian_Girl]

Jesus Christ changed two fish into 5000 fish. He didn’t change the fish into cows or shrimp.

The Word of God is clear and even the fossil records proclaim, that like only begats like.

That’s just the way it is because that’s the way God designed it.

[Bob434]

[[No, clearly I do understand it.]]

No you don’t- my last post spelled it out clearly and still you falsely claim you understand it when it’s quite obvious you don’t

[[I did. Did you do that word study on bearing false witness yet? There’s nothing uncivil about that]]

Nope- sorry- you’re calling me a liar and accusing me of false witness when I’ve repeatedly stated you have a profound misunderstanding of the term Nephesh Chayyah- Your posts clearly indicated you either did not study what the term means OR you simply can’t grasp the obvious meaning of the term- There’s no lying nor any false witness- so grow up

From a previous post where I made it clear you have a profound misunderstanding of the term

[[As I’ve stated I’ve explained the situation to you several times- you apparently don’t understand what I’ve said- go back and read carefully what I’ve said instead of repeating your mistake over and over again- you show a profound misunderstanding of the word Nephesh if you continue making this statement repeatedly- no one has ever said souls don’t live forever- Nephesh does not refer to the eternal soul- I thought that was clear but evidently not]]

Your word study obviously has done you no good- I even provided the meaning of Nephesh Chayyah several times I n this thread and still you yammer on and on about eternal soul even after it’s been explained to you nephesh Chayyah was not speaking to eternal soul but to ALL higher creatures- This is WHY I asked you explain how animal’s souls live for ever since you keep on mistakenly insinuating that Nephesh Chayyah refers to eternal soul-

[[No, actually nothing in what I posted showed either of those things.]]

You are continuing to show it fella- As explained by my last post and by my last paragraph above- but do please keep posting that you understand it when you clearly don’t-

[[Please explain to everyone here where I ever claimed animal souls live on.]]

You have very obviously missed the entire concept of the issue being discussed IF you couldn’t grasp the significance of my challenge to you- There was a very specific reason for me asking you that- and My last post about Nephesh Chayyah spells it out plainly

[Bob434]

[[No, all one needs to do is realize the truth: the Bible never teaches that souls die. Ever.]]

Bzzzzt- wrong!

The SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE. THE SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” Ezekiel 18: 4 & 20

One last time Vlad- because obviously you did a very poor word study if you did one at all- Nephesh Chayyah when discussing soul creatures/higher creatures, refers to the mortal soul of creatures both man and animal- it is NOT talking about the immortal Soul- I had asked you to do a word study on this term, and like I said, either you failed to do so or you did a very poor job of it because the meaning is clear when one does a thorough word study on the term - It is also clear from the verse above that the word soul refers to the mortal soul of a being and NOT to the eternal soul which will either live in heaven or hell for eternity

If you wish to keep going down the road of insinuating that Nephesh Chayyah is revering to the eternal soul, and keep making the claim that you’ve done a good enough word study to understand, when it is painfully clear you don’t- then by all means- keep making the claim, and keep saying things that aren’t true about the bible to back up your mistaken assumption about the term-

[[Your position about souls is wrong. It’s just that simple.]]

My position about souls is perfectly inline with what the bible has to say about BOTH - You though seem to ignore the Fact that the bible speaks about two (Well, you admitted it at one point, then you backtracked and actually doubled down again almost immediately on your mistaken belief that Nephesh Chayyah can only mean eternal soul judging by everything you’ve claimed from then on out).

I’ve listed the definition of Nephesh Chayyah for you- I even provided verses that show the word Soul refers at times to physical beings, and not the immortal soul. Accept them or don’t- whatever, but the facts remain facts regardless of how dedicated you are to misunderstanding the term

[Cvengr]

Of course, He could have created everything 5 seconds ago, including our short and long term memories, just to test our thinking.
In the light of Creation by God, Evolutionary proofs really don’t mean squat.

[vladimir998]

“From a previous post where I made it clear you have a profound misunderstanding of the term”

Bearing false witness does not help your claims. You can keep doing it, in fact I’m sure you will, but it won’t work.

[vladimir998]

“Bzzzzt- wrong!”

No, I’m absolutely 100% correct.

“Ezekiel 18: 4 & 20”

As I said - and correctly so - the Bible sometimes refers to souls meaning a person on this earth and NOT meaning their immortal soul. Since we are all judged after death, souls CANNOT die. It’s just that simple. If souls die, then there is no point to Heaven or Hell - for the outcome (if souls die) would be essentially irrelevant. Eternal bliss compared to eternal damnation is a great reward. Eternal bliss compared to annihilation offers little since annihilation means experiencing no loss whatsoever. A soul would simply cease to be. Again, your view is unbiblical for it denies the necessity of the Judgment, Heaven, and Hell.

Clearly you need to do more study. A lot more study.

[Bob434]

[[the Bible sometimes refers to souls meaning a person on this earth and NOT meaning their immortal soul.]]

Bingo- And Had you stopped right there- you would have shown you understood what Nephesh Chayyah is speaking about

[[Since we are all judged after death, souls CANNOT die.]]

But sadly you veer right back into the meme that ‘Nephesh Chayyah is talking about souls, therefore souls must mean immortal soul’ when it is clear Nephesh Chayyah is NOT talking about immortal souls when describing higher life beings- and all this in an apparent attempt to support the idea that 1 day in genesis ‘doesn’t mean a literal 24 hours’? Really?

[[No, I’m absolutely 100% correct.]]

No sir you are not- I’ve explained it to you many times now- You have a nice day now-

[vladimir998]

“Bingo- And Had you stopped right there- you would have shown you understood what Nephesh Chayyah is speaking about”

I said, in post # 46, “Also, I would shy away from the term “soul death” if I were you for in English it implies the death of a soul - which is logically impossible and against scripture since there is a Heaven and a Hell.”

I was right all along - and now you’re admitting it.

[Bob434]

no fella- in English it implies just what it implies- that Nephesh Chayyah is speaking about higher life souls dying- You can keep trying to spin it all you like- but the English definition of Nephesh Chayyah is soul, and when Nephesh Chayyah is used In the bible speaking about higher creatures, it clearly states that these souls die- I listed several verses that back this up infact- so yeah- keep right on digging that hole- You insisted on trying to wiggle out of this-

[[No, all one needs to do is realize the truth: the Bible never teaches that souls die. Ever.]]

[[No, Im absolutely 100% correct.]]

That isn’t the truth, not when it comes to Nephesh Chayyah which all living higher creatures possess (which is again why I asked you to explain whether animals go to heaven or not- since animals don’t, then it is clear that the term living souls, Nephesh Chayyah, refers to all living higher soul creatures- We’ve seen in several verses now that mortal souls -Nephesh Chayyah- do infact die

Psalm 78:50 He leveled a path for His anger;
He did not spare their soul from death,
But gave over their life to the plague,

In this instance, the word -soul- (Hebrew nephesh) is used to denote the physical life of humans, and explains that their mortal souls, their life, ceases. This is not the same thing as their immortal soul- and this is where you are making your mistake- Some teach there is a body, soul, spirit, and state that it is the spirit that goes to God

Ecclesiastes 12:7, Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Revelations 16:3 The second angel poured out his bowl upon the sea, so that it turned to blood as of a corpse, and every living soul that was in the sea died.

In this instance soul refers to the physical life of animals and explains that their souls their life ceases

Genesis 1:20 (ASV), Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, nephesh hayyah, living souls (obviously referring to animals which have no immortal soul)

There was no death of living souls -Nephesh Chayyah- before the fall. And no amount of spinning will undo the fact that the English translation ALSO means mortal soul, and that the bible talks about mortal souls that die - You can’t spin your way out of this but I’m betting you keep trying

[Bob434]

[[I said, in post # 46, “Also, I would shy away from the term “soul death” if I were you for in English it implies the death of a soul]]

And I suggested you do a word study on Nephesh Chayyah so that you understand what the word soul actually means when the bible talks about souls that die- and that there was no need to ‘shy away from’ using the term because the bible is clear- soul creatures die- their mortal souls die- but either you didn’t do a word study, or you profoundly misunderstood the study you claim to have done because it can’t be any clearer when one does a word study that nephesh Chayyah talks about mortal souls of higher creatures

[[I was right all along]]

No0- you’re just stubbornly doubling down on your mistake

[vladimir998]

The simple fact is I was right from the start. Nothing you have said has changed that nor will it. All living creatures on earth have souls. Only human beings have rational souls. They are all eternal. They don’t die. Hence, the Judgment. Hence, Hell. Hence, Heaven. It’s just that simple.

[NorthMountain]

The people writing how creation happened in Genesis were writing to people as dumb as a box of rocks

No. They. Were. Not.

That's fine example of chronological bigotry, though. Thanks for offering it up.