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17 Facts about Mormonism: A Mormon Response and Counter-Response by Damon Whitsell
Discerning Sound Doctrine ^ | November 5, 2015 | Damon Whitsell

Posted on 11/25/2015 10:50:25 AM PST by damonw

POST IS TOO LONG TO POST ALL HERE - A F.A.I.R. Mormon Apologist by the name of CC (CleanCut) submitted a response to ALL 17 of the claims in this post 17 Little Known Facts About the Mormons

What follows is,,,

1. the 17 facts as stated by Challengemin.org

2. CCs comments. (You see CCs original comments for verification on the above post comments section)

3. my (Damons) counter comments.

FACT #1 The Mormon Church teaches ALL other Churches are WRONG; ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION in the sight of God; and ALL their teachers are corrupt.

One of the Mormon Books of Scripture, The Pearl of Great Price, says this about non-LDS churches: … they were ALL WRONG and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an ABOMINATION in his sight; that those professors were ALL CORRUPT.(Joseph Smith 2:19).

____________________________________

CC: The truth about this fact is that The LDS Church teaches that all churches have some truth, just not the fullness of the truth. This particular quote refers to the creeds of the churches that we believe are wrong, but not that all the individual Christians who follow them are wrong in their sincere desire to follow Christ the best they know how.

DAMON: Mormonism is built on the First visions of Joseph Smith. And while there are 3 contradictory accounts of this First Vision, they all agree in making the false assertion that Christianity is apostate and an abomination to God. Mormonism has this in common with all churchs (Christian cults) that started from Campbells Restoration Movement.

This post shows what Mormon leaders have always said, and still do say about Christianity. AND IT AINT NICE

So Joel Osteen says Mormons are Christians, But what do Mormons say about Christianity?

(Excerpt) Read more at discerningsounddoctrine.wordpress.com ...


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: bible; bookofmormon; christianity; mormonism
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To: IWONDR

Jesus Christ:

“But the hour cometh, and now is when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit, they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” Jn 4:23,24

“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.” Jn 5:37

John the apostle:

“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” Jn 1:18

“No man hath see God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.” 1Jn 4:12

Paul:

“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature”: Col 1:15

“Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” 1Tim 1:17

“By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the King: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.” Heb 11:27


61 posted on 11/26/2015 1:34:21 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: CodeToad

Upon hearing Apollos, a powerful preacher that was right about some things and wrong about others, Aquila and Priscilla approached and corrected him.

I don’t think that that was a religious attack.

Honest hearts accept correction when the proof is undeniable.


62 posted on 11/26/2015 1:41:00 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Elsie
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
 
 
 
...and so forth.   REALLY?

63 posted on 11/27/2015 4:55:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Terry L Smith
I've never considered myself 'a scholar', although i have done the side-by-side reading of: KJV, NIV, RSV, TEV, Living, Messianic Jewish Ta'anach.


Funny you should bring this up...


 
See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'
 
 


Color coding explanation:
 
Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff... 
 *(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every tenth word or so that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)

 
 
 
 

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW
An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.
Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.
1 aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ccrowned on the right hand of God.
2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.
3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.
4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the asign of thy bcoming, and of the cend of the world, or the destruction of the dwicked, which is the end of the world?
5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;
6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am aChrist—and shall deceive many;
7 Then shall they deliver you up to be aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;
8 And then shall many be aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;
9 And many afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;
10 And because iniquity shall abound, the alove of many shall wax cold;
11 But he that remaineth asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.
12 When you, therefore, shall see the aabomination of bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.
13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the amountains;
14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;
15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;
16 And wo unto them that are with achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;
17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;
18 For then, in those days, shall be great atribulation on the bJews, and upon the inhabitants of cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.
19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.
20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.
21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;
22 For in those days there shall also arise false aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.
24 Behold, I have told you before;
25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;
26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the acarcass is, there will the eagles be bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.
28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.
29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.
31 And again, this aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;
32 And again shall the aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.
33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the asun shall be bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
34 Verily, I say unto you, this ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.
35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.
36 And, as I said before, after the atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth bmourn; and they shall see the cSon of Man dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;
37 And whoso atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall bcome, and he shall send his cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
38 Now learn a parable of the afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;
39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;
40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.
41 But as it was in the days of aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
43 And aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other bleft;
45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;
46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.
47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.
48 Therefore be ye also aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.
49 Who, then, is a afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
50 Blessed is that aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord adelayeth his coming,
52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,
53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and agnashing of teeth.
55 And thus cometh the aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39 24:1-51
39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
King James Version of the Holy Bible
Public domain

64 posted on 11/27/2015 4:59:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Terry L Smith
Amazing thing; the Joseph Smith's translation.

GOD directly commanded him to remove the ERRORS from the KJV; yet Salt Lake City does NOT consider it to actually be Scripture...



...and they STILL use the KJV!

65 posted on 11/27/2015 5:04:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
You handsome devil, you!

Watcha cooking up there; on that stove that looks like it has served up quite a few sumptuous meals?

66 posted on 11/27/2015 5:06:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: IWONDR
A parents perception of their child could differ from that of that child's teacher, but they still are describing the very same child: just different perceptions.

John 14:8-11

8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

67 posted on 11/27/2015 5:10:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: IWONDR
They are BOTH deceived.

It's not quite THIS simple...


68 posted on 11/27/2015 5:14:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: IWONDR
Elsie—a very interesting and thought provoking document.

Hopefully; some ACTION will be generated by it as well.

69 posted on 11/27/2015 5:15:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: IWONDR
...perceptions do not change the true nature of the object perceived, except in the eyes of the observer,

What you say is true; PROVIDING that what is being looked at is the same thing. <


Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

70 posted on 11/27/2015 5:18:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: IWONDR
...except in the eyes of the observer, like yourself Elsie, who are blinkered by your beliefs.

Do you not believe that what you are typing is true?

Do you also believe the bible when it describes false prophets?

71 posted on 11/27/2015 5:20:21 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SENTINEL
(Sermon by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, printed in the Deseret News, February 18, 1857

HMMMmmm...



Brigham Young said, "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture." (Journal of Discourses 13:95).

72 posted on 11/27/2015 5:23:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SENTINEL
This is either TRUE; or it is not...


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

73 posted on 11/27/2015 5:25:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SENTINEL

Kneel down to God. Stand up to tyrants. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !)

Amen; Brother!

74 posted on 11/27/2015 5:26:56 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Still defending Christ I see, Elsie.

Eph 5:11

75 posted on 11/27/2015 6:49:09 AM PST by SENTINEL (Kneel down to God. Stand up to tyrants. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !)
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To: SENTINEL

HE’s defending ME!

1 John 2:1

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.


76 posted on 11/27/2015 7:20:14 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

dear elsie,

I have no reason, desire, or impetus to continue any more long, dry, boring readings of anything mormon. It’s all crap, and i don’t extend one wish of happiness towards them.


77 posted on 11/27/2015 6:21:54 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: Vigilanteman

Conservative?
Really?
Harry Reid?
Mitt Romney?
You no zip about monism.


78 posted on 11/27/2015 10:34:52 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: teppe

Sorry about that, you’ve wasted your life, following a cult.


79 posted on 11/27/2015 10:36:47 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: JAKraig

Mormonism is not Christian maybe you should actually look into the cult.


80 posted on 11/27/2015 10:39:13 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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