17 Facts about Mormonism: A Mormon Response and Counter-Response by Damon Whitsell

Discerning Sound Doctrine ^ | November 5, 2015 | Damon Whitsell

[damonw]

POST IS TOO LONG TO POST ALL HERE - A F.A.I.R. Mormon Apologist by the name of CC (CleanCut) submitted a response to ALL 17 of the claims in this post 17 Little Known Facts About the Mormons

What follows is,,,

1. the 17 facts as stated by Challengemin.org

2. CCs comments. (You see CCs original comments for verification on the above post comments section)

3. my (Damons) counter comments.

FACT #1 The Mormon Church teaches ALL other Churches are WRONG; ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION in the sight of God; and ALL their teachers are corrupt.

One of the Mormon Books of Scripture, The Pearl of Great Price, says this about non-LDS churches: … they were ALL WRONG and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an ABOMINATION in his sight; that those professors were ALL CORRUPT.(Joseph Smith 2:19).

____________________________________

CC: The truth about this fact is that The LDS Church teaches that all churches have some truth, just not the fullness of the truth. This particular quote refers to the creeds of the churches that we believe are wrong, but not that all the individual Christians who follow them are wrong in their sincere desire to follow Christ the best they know how.

DAMON: Mormonism is built on the First visions of Joseph Smith. And while there are 3 contradictory accounts of this First Vision, they all agree in making the false assertion that Christianity is apostate and an abomination to God. Mormonism has this in common with all churchs (Christian cults) that started from Campbells Restoration Movement.

This post shows what Mormon leaders have always said, and still do say about Christianity. AND IT AINT NICE

So Joel Osteen says Mormons are Christians, But what do Mormons say about Christianity?

[svcw]

When lds says “Christ”, they are NOT talking about the eternal Christ, they are talking about a guy who became Christ, just like their God, who was once a man.
People believe in this lds Christ are not Christians.

[svcw]

Only about 15% of lds have TRs, so probably not.
🙃

[svcw]

Really?
Have you ever seen lds vote for?

[svcw]

They don’t murder the body.

[svcw]

I’m sorry.

[Normandy]

Interesting post, VM. I would obviously fall into category B, but I don’t have much interest in trying to prove my point via debate or argument.

Personally I am convinced, but each person needs to seek light and knowledge themselves from the Source of truth. “

“Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find”

[Terry L Smith]

Dear elsie,

Lady, I ain’t no stinking mormon. Period.

In response to:
“How many of you Mormons posting here are going to TERRESTIAL?

With the rest of us ‘christians’?? “

I was a messianic lay pastor in training.\

[Terry L Smith]

dear elsie,

re:
“I want to extend TRUE happiness towards them!

The JOY of the Lord; not the yoke of MormonISM.”

Good. Mazel tov. Why not get a bicycle, and take it to THEIR doorstep, like they do to everybody else?

[Elsie]

Lady, I ain’t no stinking mormon. Period.

I just posted it to EVERYONE who had already been pinged to this thread.

Sometimes a Mormon will actually address what LDS Prophets, Leaders, Movers and Shakers have said.

[Elsie]

Why not get a bicycle, and take it to THEIR doorstep, like they do to everybody else?

Sadly; not enough Christians are well versed in what they are supposed to believe.

Not to worry; as there are other ways of getting through to them.

The BEST way is when they REALLY are upset at one or more of us 'gentiles' and dig into their history on their own; trying to prove us wrong.

---

Thanks; Al Gore; for inventing the Internet!

Thanks; SLC; for keeping such good records; too.

[Elsie]

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Vigilanteman]

Personally I am convinced, but each person needs to seek light and knowledge themselves from the Source of truth. “

Good method, for those worthy enough to employ it. I don't count myself there yet. Maybe someday. Probably by the second coming. Choice "C" is the obvious option for those of us still waiting.

Among other things, I've got to stop calling the gutter trash as gutter trash. But I can't help myself anymore than they can help themselves on forever attacking those who pick choice "A" or "B".

[Terry L Smith]

dear elsie,

Point well taken.

OBTW, I have an ‘internetizen’ (if that is a coined term or not), since the days of the ARPAnet, and a charter member of a NY ‘bbs’, when it bought a connection to the DARPAnet, before the days of ‘www’.

[Elsie]

I resisted connecting to even e-mail while working for the government. I had a home computer; was in them from the days of 7 segment displays and 256 bytes of memory; but did not get online for a long time.

[Elsie]

Among other things, I've got to stop calling the gutter trash as gutter trash.

One man's trash is another's treasure.

---

Questions put to Joseph Smith:

 

 "'Do you believe the Bible?'

 

 [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'.

 

 

 

When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'?

 [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

 

 

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

[Elsie]

(ObaMao: Fake America, Fake Messiah, Fake Black man. How many fakes can you fit into one Zer0?)

HMMMmmm...

[Colofornian]

Why not get a bicycle, and take it to THEIR doorstep, like they do to everybody else?

Interesting compartmentalization on two fronts: (a) The word "they" -- as to who is represented by "they"; and (b) Why don't you give the same "corporate identity" to Christians like Elsie as you apparently do Mormons???

Allow me to explain:

Ya know, 95% of the Mormons lads & lassies who come to your door are aged 18, 19, 20. A few "ticks" %-wise are 21-23. The rest -- perhaps 3% at best -- are older.

Yet even tho the overwhelming % of Mormons who come to your door are either teens or barely 20...we don't see you telling the alcoholic eligibles within Mormondom (21 & over crowd) to "get a bicycle, & take it to" others' "doorsteps, like...everybody else." Why not?

Well, the "why not" is that you apparently accept the notion of representation: These 21 & over Mormons are -- apparently in your mind -- represented by their younger lot who act as door-to-door "peddle" pushers.

So, let's reverse that, shall we? I know of at least one specific Christian group -- and I'm sure many others exist or who've made the rounds in the past -- those who've been door-to-door-stepping within Mormon-ornamented Utah County...home of BYU...just over the previous two years.

Yet, apparently you don't grant Elsie the same principle of "door to door" via representation that you seemingly accord older Mormons?

Do you see the obvious double-standard here? Mormon adults are not seen as sitting on their duffs because other Mormons represent them door-to-door; yet those Christians who DO go door-to-door in Utah don't (in your mind) represent other Christians who aren't ringing doorbells in Utah.

Tell us: Why the double standard here?

[Colofornian]

The baptism of Jesus puts all three elements of the trinity as separate entities . . . the earthly Jesus with a mortal body, the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove and the voice of God the father from heaven plus John 3:16 and numerous others which put Jesus as the only begotten son of God.

#1...Vigilanteman, may I remind you that the word "trinity" actually has a specific basic meaning: "tri" = 3; "nity" as a contracted word for "unity."

Christianity doesn't deny the "tri" of the trinity: It actually teaches a tri-personal God!

#2...then for you to conclude that the tri-personal reality of God = plural "entities"...you've now crossed into the realm of polytheism, which any clear plain reading of the entirety of the Bible is NOT Judeo-Christian.

Finally, #3, let's compare all this to a parallel teaching of Jesus Himself, shall we? Note ESPECIALLY the highlighted below:

Matthew 19:
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be UNITed to his wife, and the two WILL BECOME ONE flesh’? 6 So they are NO LONGER TWO, BUT ONE flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

I can just imagine, you, Vigilanteman in the crowd...listening to Jesus as He's proclaiming Matthew 19:

"Sorry, Jesus. I've seen men and women. Separate entities. All of 'em. How dare you call them 'one.' How dare you say, 'they are NO LONGER TWO!' Of course, they're two! They're 'separate entities' I tell you! Separate!"

So, Vigilanteman: Are you claiming that a husband and wife is more "one" than God the Father & His Son? Really?

All on the basis of your strange "logic"???

[Colofornian]

I do not; however, believe in the Nicene Creed.

Tell us Teppe, what's wrong with the Apostles Creed?

Please be specific.

Joseph Smith, in his "first vision" later made into Mormon "scripture" placed on the same par with the Bible, claimed there that "ALL" Christian creeds were "an abomination in His sight" -- the sight, that is, of the unnamed entities who appeared to Smith.

Why do Mormons deem the Apostles Creed to be an "abomination" Teppe?

Can ANY Mormon tell us specifically what's so "abominable" about the Apostles Creed?

[Colofornian]

Revelations is a Book. Anyone who adds to or takes away from the Book of Revelations is condemned to suffer the plagues mentioned in that book. Mormons and JW’s may well be cults, I personally don't think so...

I have Joseph Smith's "JST" (Joseph Smith 'Translation' of the Bible), which BTW, isn't a "translation" at all as Smith knew very, very, very, very little Hebrew or Greek. IoW, it's an editing hatchet job, coupled with a weak attempt on a few verses to try to develop a "running commentary" by ADDING some words to change or add to the meaning as stated in those verses.

Now, when we turn to the book of Revelation in the JST, we see, for example, that in Revelation 1:4-5, Joseph Smith ADDED a LOT of words just to those two verses alone! Compared to the KJV, Smith added 22 words to Rev. 1:4 & another dozen words to Rev. 1:5...That's 34 words in just two verses!

By your very own admission -- J.A. -- where you said: "Anyone who ADDS TO...the Book of Revelations is condemned to suffer the plagues mentioned in that book."

Smith did exactly that!

At other places in the book of Revelation, Smith did exactly what you said would be problematic, JA: Smith "took away" the river reference, for example, in Rev. 9:14 in his "JST" version of the Bible. Rev. 9:1 references "bottomless pit" -- so Smith decided to extrapolate "bottomless pit" from v. 1, took away "River Euphrates" in v. 14 -- and replaced it with "bottomless pit" in v. 14.

How is a river a "bottomless pit?"