Posted on 10/06/2015 10:35:57 AM PDT by envisio
I have read a little and did some research on baptism and if there is a need to get baptized as an adult after being baptized as a child.
I looked for the Church’s standing on it and I looked for scripture written about it. My research left me with the half-baked conclusion, in the eyes of the Lord, one only needs baptized once.
I was baptized as a small child without any realization of what was happening. In the 40 years to follow there were plenty of times I was lost, sinning, doing the devils deeds with the liquor and the drugs and the whores and on all fours in the parkinglot puking only to repeat it again the next day for years in my 20s. I never got into any real trouble; no felonies or violence, just drunken antics of a stupid 20something year old. Of course, as we get older, we settle down and put away our childish behavior to be adults. In no way will my wild youth define my legacy since then.
Recent events have tested my faith and questioned a merciful God. Ultimately those events brought me closer to God, and it was my wife’s wish that I completely give my life to Christ. She did and I am quite sure she is sitting by His side right now, praying that I do the same.
I am a sinner. I have confessed my sins and asked for forgiveness. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. I want to complete it with water. I want to get baptized again, but I don’t want it to be vain. I don’t want to do it for myself as a vain show that’s not necessary just to make me feel better. I want to do it because God wants me to do it.
So, since you folks are far more learned on the teachings of the bible, and FReepdom is unmatched in advice dealing with church and God, my question is… Even if the original baptism was done at a time when I did not know what was happening… Is a second baptism common? Is it vain? Will it make me complete in my transition to being born again? Is it necessary?
Uhhhh . . .
... and then get baptized...
Just become wet sinners.
Roger on the wet sinner. A truly saved person, who is truly in Christ, by true faith, and true faith alone, and gets baptized, becomes a wet sinner, who has already been saved once and forever, always saved, never lost again, not now, not ever. If physical water baptism is necessary for salvation, then maybe Jesus really didn't mean it when he told the dying thief he would be with Him in Paradise. By the way, that might be a subject for a different thread, like what is Paradise, what is Heaven.
At any rate, I think millions of people will be in for the complete, total shock of their existence at death, as they find themselves in the fires of Hell. Not a pretty picture, and it doesn't have to be that way. It really is so simple, my son understood it when he was 5 years old.
Of course, I think you have to completely define every word and every term you use. I found that out when dealing with Mormons and JWs. Words like Jesus Christ, faith, baptism, salvation, conjure up different concepts in their minds.
The people I deal with here, are more like the Bereans. They just want to know the truth. Imagine that, some people actually want to know the truth. What a novel concept. Keep telling the truth bro. 😂😀😋😃
Got any pearls for sale?
Liberty in Christ is simply freedom from religious bondage. Its not, as the religious like to claim, a license to sin. Its loving folks because Jesus first loved us. Its forgiving, because He forgave us. Its obedience out of Love, not because of the Law or religious legalism. Satan beat me up with condemnation over baptism, telling me I didn’t believe, or it wasn’t done right, or a hundred other lies from the pit of hell. That is why I am passionate about this topic. Those ordinances become barriers. They become opportunities for the devil to sow doubt, unbelief, and condemnation. They restrict the freedom God gave us. That is why Paul attacks the rudiments of the world, the works of the flesh, and ceremonialism so hard in his letters. In the Age of Grace, Believers are made alive in Christ, Blessed with every Spiritual Blessing in Heavenly Places, and most importantly, Believers are HIS WORKMANSHIP and Complete In Christ. You may have to spiritually mature to fully believe and enjoy this, but it is the Truth. There is freedom knowing that you could NEVER earn His Grace. You serve out of Love, because God IS Love, not out of compulsion.
I honestly take little issue with anything you wrote. As long as God’s Word is the foundation, and the means of spiritual growth, all is well. The challenge is, much of what historically has been called Christianity is nothing more than religion, as proven by their fruit, and as compared to God’s Word when it is rightly divided. People may disagree and that’s fine. We are called to have Spiritual unity, not necessarily doctrinal unity.
I grew up in a religious denomination that in the time of my grandfather was very Bible-based, and Spirit-filled. Even in my youth, I remember Anointed men of God often in the pulpit. But over the years, that changed. I visited a service at a large church of this denomination just a few years back and they were using Disney movies to illustrate how we should treat each other instead of God’s Word! That MIGHT be appropriate for kids (not what I would recommend), but its hardly the meat of the Word, or even milk! That’s anecdotal, but I have visited several churches of various flavors and had similar experiences. Boldly preaching the Word as Paul instructed sometimes seems to be the exception. I trust in my heart that there are far more Believers preaching the Word than my experiences have shown, and no doubt God is moving in those congregations and transforming lives. And I have met Bible-centered Believers from every faith background at various events, so I know they are out there.
When I got really serious about the Word, there was a lot of religious tradition that I had to set aside because I found it contrary to God’s Word. And I had tons of religious training and plenty of exposure to the Word from birth through Bible classes in college. Even taught adult Sunday School for a time. I did everything a religious person was supposed to do - tithe, give to the poor, coach church youth, volunteer, I even would bring a covered dish at the proper times. It was mostly work, and not LIFE, and with little Joy.
Then came a serious crisis in my life. Religion patted me on the head and sent me away. When you are at the end of your rope, you better know WHO you believe in. I’m still alive because of the faith and prayers of friends and family, and a hunger and tenacity for His Truth. God moved in a very simple, but wonderful way to change the direction of my life. He has done many miraculous things in my life that I still can’t fully describe or even explain. Many of those were the result of Spirit-filled parents standing on God’s Word for my protection in my youth when I had strayed away from Him. Once they went home, it was my turn to use my faith. And as I found the hard way, that only comes from hearing God’s Word, and spiritual maturity, not religious activities.
Certainly, nobody should go it alone - although God will pour water on thirsty ground if that is what it takes to get you nourished. I sought out ministries, theologians, laypeople, family, and friends who are Spirit-filled and knew the Word. During my darkest months, I must have consumed hundreds of Christian books, teaching tapes, ministry CDs & DVDs, and many Bible translations because I needed to know THE Truth, not religious opinions. And God is so gracious, revealing answers to questions in the most wonderful way. He even answered my silly childhood questions that no minister could rightly answer, and I had forgotten, leading me to the answers in His Word. The Bible is not just a book, but alive with Truth, ready to provide teaching, reproof, correction, so every Believer can be spiritually mature and prepared to fulfill God’s plan for their life.
I am as hungry now as ever before, and always desiring more. Because of God’s infinite Wisdom, you will never learn everything. But I intend to discover something new every day until I am with Him.
I challenge myself on forums like this to dig deeper in the Word, listen to the Spirit, and seek the Truth. There is a wealth of Wisdom and knowledge on these threads, especially if you are willing to consider something that may contradict your religious training.
And yet it was NEVER administered in the three names anywhere in Scripture, even though Jesus specifically commanded this in Matthew 28. Read Acts for yourself carefully. I did last night and again today to confirm what I remembered. Either the disciples disobeyed Jesus, or that command belongs to a different dispensation, a coming time of judgment.
The Bible doesn’t say it will take 2,000 years for someone to figure out how to “ rightly divide the Word”, but it does say in the latter days many false prophets will arise. Hmm....
And as I wrote before, this was ALREADY happening while Paul was writing his letters. He complains that all in Asia had rejected his Revelation. Why do you suppose there was such an uproar in organized religion when people began suggesting God's Word said you could be justified by faith through Grace? Or when Believers started teaching about the Body of Christ, the Mystery, or anything else Paul taught in his prison epistles? Everything Paul wrote has been in his prison epistles for almost 2,000 years! His Revelation was just waiting for folks to discover it and walk in its Truth. Why was it ignored, dismissed, misunderstood, or not taught? I simply believe the Word became less important as Christianity was overwhelmed by Judaizers, pagan converts and their ideas, and religious tradition. Its simply the nature of a large bureaucracy that always leads to corruption. The average convert sitting in the pew didn't know any better and dared not challenge religious authority.
I do agree no one baptized using three names. Go read Matthew 28:19 again carefully, you will notice the word name is singular not plural.
Yea! We have found common ground! Nobody used the three names in baptism. As far as singular versus plural - that's worthy of some careful thought. The Bible is quite specific and does not throw words around. There is a reason the Holy Spirit inspired Matthew, who was an eyewitness presumably, to record the three separate names. The more important point to consider is, nobody in Scripture followed this direct command Jesus laid out in Matthew 28. It is incumbent on the child of God to study the Word and let it reveal the reason this might be.
You do mention there were some faithful Christians “tortured and put to death” after the first century........I hear that a lot but they never have any names. Can you name some faithful Christians in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries that rightly divided the word and were tortured and killed? Not asking for 1,000, just one would do. Any???
Do you really want me to discover an individual's name in the 5th century who was burned as a heretic? That seems like a very big waste of time and not productive to this discussion. There is a vibrant historical record of religious persecution, violence, and genocide by many religious groups for centuries in Europe. IF EVEN ONE person was murdered by a group who claims to follow Christ, something is amiss. The fact that there were millions, if you include all the wars, pogroms, witch hunts, starvation, and ethnic cleansing done at the behest or encouragement of religion, there is something terribly, terribly, wrong. Note, that I never identified any specific religious group. I do believe there were plenty of sincere Christians of all backgrounds who were doing their best with what revelation they had to live Godly lives. Its the leadership that has generally failed folks. Another factor was the darkness that prevailed before the Word was widely distributed and readily available. That is one reason why I think we live in a golden age for Believers. I can access hundreds of books, study aids, translations, just on my laptop alone. I can search and cross reference until my fingers go numb. The Internet expands that infinitely. There is no excuse for not knowing God's Word intimately.
Finally, is there some teacher that has written a book in the last 50 years that you could recommend to,me to learn more about why the three names weren’t used in baptism and what the third commission is? I am fascinated by this rightly dividing the word.
Its older than 50 years - 1916 to be exact and available online for free. The author is E W Bullinger who was a remarkable theologian. I am not of fan of most theologians, but he is brilliant. His work on Figures of Speech in the Bible, The Witness of the Stars, and his Commentary on Revelation are all outstanding. If you want to understand the nuts and bolts of the Bible get his Companion Bible - also available for free and loaded with notes and appendices. I have a big print hard copy and an electronic version on my laptop that I use often as a reference. As with any MAN, read his work and compare it to the Word. Like any man, he can and will make mistakes. In ANY question, God's Word is your final answer.
For this specific topic I will refer you to his wonderful work - How To Enjoy The Bible. Its probably my second favorite book after God's Word - and that's high praise because I have a lucrative Christian library spanning three generations of ministers and teachers. I'll post the link below. Its a PDF, so the relevant pages are 123-132. For an intellectual in the late 19th/early 20th century, he writes at level that is easily understood no matter where you are in your faith journey. Some of his points can be tough to chew at first, but open the Bible and look up the reference verses for yourself.
Here is the appendix on the Three Commissions - #167 From The Companion Bible. This is very brief, but hopefully gets you started. The link at the bottom will take you to many other articles and books by the same author, as well as other Christian writers. All of it is free to read or download.
And since this thread is on baptism, here is an appendix on the word use. Note how it disappears in the prison epistles. Appendix 167 can be found also at the site below if its easier to navigate.
E W Bullinger, thanks I look forward to checking his book out.
Solid with both of you. Keep it up, and keep on keeping on!
The Links to the Seven Baptisms are as follows:
I. The Baptism unto Moses: UNTO REDEMPTION--FREE FROM BONDAGE AND SIN
II. The Baptism by John: UNTO REPENTANCE--FORGIVEN OF SINS
III. The Baptism of The Christ: UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS--FULFILLED ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS
IV. The Baptism of Violent Death: UNTO WRATH--FAITHFUL TO HIS FATHER
V. The Baptism of The Holy Spirit: UNTO RELATIONSHIP--FAITH IN CHRIST COMMITTED
VI. The Disciples’ Baptism or Water Baptism: UNTO RESURRECTION - FUNERAL
Yeah, but not for sale. Freely ye have received, freely give.
Examination of Acts 22:16 regarding Saul's baptism
Whole denominations subscribe to false and misleading doctrine relating to Christian baptism, by trying to give Acts 22:16 the sense that the sins of a gospellized human are not forgiven by God until the candidate is subjected to the external application of water to his/her body in the rite of baptism. This, of course, is utterly incompatible with the plan of salvation documented by Jehovah throughout the corpus of His Holy Scriptures, the Bible: salvation in both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant through God's forgiveness of sins is solely conditional upon the committed trust of the human in the faithfulness of Jesus Christ alone; nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else.
The New Testament rite of baptism by immersion does not and cannot effect salvation. Rather, it is a symbol of the human's profession of faith in Christ, and a rite of induction into Christ's company of dedicated believer-disciples and its regimen of training for service. Thoughts on the ministry of Ananias to the new-born disciple-apostle Saul, by the great Bible scholar and commentator Matthew Henry:
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4. The counsel and encouragement he (Ananias) gave him (Saul) to join himself to the Lord Jesus by baptism (Acts 22:16):
Arise, and be baptized, He had in his circumcision been given up to God, but he must now by baptism be given up to God in Christ - must embrace the Christian religion and the privileges of it, in submission to the precepts of it. This must now be done immediately upon his conversion, and so was added to his circumcision: but to the seed of the faithful it comes in the room of it; for it is, as that was to Abraham and his believing seed, a seal of the righteousness which is by faith.
(1.) The great gospel privilege which by baptism we have sealed to us is the remission of sins: Be baptized and wash away thy sins; that is, "Receive the comfort of the pardon of thy sins in the through Jesus Christ and lay hold of his righteousness for that purpose, and receive power against sin for the mortifying of thy corruption;" for our being washed includes our being both justified and sanctified, 1 Cor. 6:11. Be baptized, and rest not in the sign, but make sure of the thing signified, the putting away of the filth of sin.
(2.) The great gospel duty which by our baptism we are bound to is to call on the name of the Lord, the Lord Jesus; to acknowledge him to be our Lord and our God, and to apply to him accordingly; to give honour to him, to put all our petitions in his hand. To call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord (Son of David, have mercy on us) is the periphrasis of a Christian, 1 Cor. 1:2. We must wash away our sins, calling on the name of the Lord; that is, we must seek for the pardon of our sins in Christ's name, and in dependence on him and his righteousness. In prayer, we must not any longer call God the God of Abraham, but the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in him our Father; in every prayer, our eye must be to Christ.
(3.) We must do this quickly. Why tarriest thou? Our covenanting with God in Christ is needful work, that must not be deferred. The case is so plain that it is needless to deliberate; and the hazard so great that it is folly to delay. Why should not that be done at the present time that must be done some time, or we are undone?
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Of particular and most doctrinally critical is that the verb "wash"--in the Greek απολουσαι--is in the aorist tense, the middle voice, and imperative mode, with the subject in this verse second person singular. That is, Ananias was ordering Saul to wash his own sins away. That is, if the washing refers to the baptism in this verse, it would mean that Ananias is ordering Saul to baptize himself. Now that simply cannot be as the proponents of baptismal regeneration wish that verse to mean. They believe from this that water baptism washes sins away, which is a very impudent claim.
Since we know that some other individual must be the one administering Paul's baptism, the only logical and reasonable interpretation is that the washing is a separate active procedure that Paul must conduct on himself. And that washing then cannot literally mean soap-and-water to the exterior, so it must be that in the figurative-literal sense Paul must identify sinful behavior, confess it, and effectually repent of it to be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness (with the washing medium being the Blood of Christ).
Matthew Henry's analysis of the passage considers the act(s) of washing away ones own sins, that is, repenting and confessing old sinful habits as they are pointed out to us by the Holy Ghost, to be now agreeing with God's command to abandon (aphiemi) habituated sinning, is a function in which then God will Himself dismiss and permanently abandon those sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 Jn. 1:9).
When one places a criminal under arrest, he will be warned, "I arrest you in the name of the law." This is a peculiar expression, but it means, "I arrest you by the authority vested in me by the Law." The phrase "calling on the name of Christ" means exactly the same thing. It is not some kind of magical mantra employing the Lord's title or personal sobriquet. Rather, here it is simply directing Paul to "call on the authority of Christ" to enable dismissing his own sinful habits, to possess his own vessel inin sanctification and honour as one matures spiritually.
Through exercising the new will-power granted by the Holy Spirit by the authority conferred on the believer, one can break the power of cancelled sins through the the authority of having Christ as our Master, and begin to walk the road of progressive sanctification.
What that means is that the baptism and the washing are two separate but important operations in becoming more holy, more spiritually mature in our conversation and deportment:
(1) The baptismal rite of submitting oneself passively to a rite thar is actively administered by the authority of the Godhead vested in His human representative, the baptizer, is a one-time passive statement of public profession and induction not meant to be repeated, the beginning of a lifelong career of discipleship by surrendering oneself to the rite symbolizing death of the old human nature captive to Satan and controlled by Sin, and replaced by the revivication of the physical body now housing the spirit of the new, blood-purchased child of God and servant of Christ controlled by the Holy Spirit.
(2) In contrast, the command to wash oneself of sins is just putting other words on an oft-repeated ongoing maintenance process of progressive sanctification, the putting off of the lingering habits and customs of the "old man" that are now able to be shed by diligent examination and resistance to their automatic recurrence, through calling on the power to do so invested in us at the moment of surrender to Christ, by reliance of the Holy Spirit in the communion of prayer and spiritual discernment, and the washing by the water of the Word in personal study, meditation, instruction by both one's personal discipler-teacher, and Bible-based admonishment in the local assembly.
Ananias is simply referring to the two phases covering the entire future of Saul's life as a Christian. First, Saul should directly submit himself to the Disciples' Baptism, a one-time ritual of public profession of faith in Christ and symbolizing entry into His visible Church for worship and service. Then, he should go on in a life of sanctification by washing away (discarding) his old sinful beliefs, attitudes, and habits, thus demonstrating the effect of allegiance to Christ in his life through the disappearance of consequences of Sin's controlling causes, and instead begin to exhibit holy behavior testifying that he is set aside, consecrated for service in the Kingdom of God.
That is what Ananias was conveying in this verse.
It was exactly the same encouragement that he would give to any new convert to The Faith, and not unique to Saul. And that is why one cannot say that it is a special revelation from Christ to Ananias of a previously unknown command to be given just to Saul. Hence, though a wise admonition based on Ananias' experience, verse 16 was not a God-breathed new Scriptural principle.
However, the telling of the whole story of Ananias in this vignette, in which his uninspired words of Acts 22:16 are embedded, as related by Paul and written by Luke, is inspired and profitable for doctrine of baptisms, for reproof of mockers, for correction of misinterpreters, for instruction in righteousness of the believer's sanctification: That the man of God sent to proclaim the truth may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works in presenting deeper understanding of His Holy Word and obedience to it.
Well said! Doesn’t it seem curious that almost everyone who gets it wrong on the purpose of water baptism is almost always wrong about salvation by grace through faith and not works, too?
Many things to disagree with here, just a few:
1. Any plain reading of Acts 22:16 shows Pauls sins were not forgiven until he was baptized. If his sins were already forgiven, Ananias’s statement is nonsensical. The plain meaning is consistent with Acts 2:38.
2. The statement that baptism does not effect salvation is completely refuted by many verses, with 1Peter 3 the clearest refutation.
3. The statement baptism is a symbol of faith is completely without support from any Scripture. Baptism is never referred to a symbolic. The Scriptures teach we are baptized into Christ and therefore baptized into his death. No hint of anything symbolic, this is the effect of baptism on our souls.
4. Lastly, we know this post has a false view of baptism because we can read the writings of the earliest post Apostolic Fathers and we do not find this symbolic view of baptism anywhere. The Church ( not some denomination ) has taught and believed one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. This symbolic view did not appear on the world scene until the 16th century.
What’s curious is most people who have heretical beliefs on baptism, claim there is something called “water baptism” and then a separate “spirit baptism”, even though Paul insists there is only one baptism. These same folks use unbiblical terminology such as water baptism and spirit baptism when the Holy Spirit thru Paul only refers to baptism.
It is all just 16th century tradition of men which has fooled many people the last 500 years.
It's right there, and a hundred other places...You can not get into Christ by getting wet...It's a spiritual operation...
Baptism does not mean water...Baptism means immersion into something...
When you get baptized 'with water' then baptism is water baptism...When you get baptized with the Holy Ghost, then it is spiritual...No water involved...
1. Any plain reading of Acts 22:16 shows Pauls sins were not forgiven until he was baptized.
The plain reading shows there were two events...
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, (1st event)...
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.( that's the 2nd event)...
The clincher is the and...Washing away thy sins is connected to 'calling on the name of the Lord'...
Yet the bible lists 7 baptisms...So you just throw out the 7 baptisms??? Count them irrelevant???
While there were 7 baptisms only one has to do with the spiritual body of Christ, which is the church...
These same folks use unbiblical terminology such as water baptism and spirit baptism when the Holy Spirit thru Paul only refers to baptism.
Seems you guys just can't stand the scriptures...John baptized with water...Jesus did not...Jesus baptized with the Holy Ghost...
If John baptized with water, it is water baptism...Is that too hard to figure out??? If Jesus did not baptize with water (and he didn't), it is not water baptism because no water is involved...
1Co_10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Hey, these guys got baptized in the cloud...No water...And they got baptized in the water but nobody got wet...Baptism does not mean water...(2Tim 2:15)
” it’s right there”
Where? Where does the Bible say baptism is symbolic? You say hundreds of places, I am only asking for you to show me one.
When you get baptized with water, you got baptized.........no such term in bible as water baptism.
No one is saved without baptism. The only way into Christ is to be baptized into Christ.
Jesus gave the Church the command to baptize and then sent it the Holy Spirit to empower the Church.
The Holy Spirit works thru the Church but is not bound by the Church. There may be elect who are baptized by the Holy Spirit who never heard the Gospel, so the answer is yes.
Baptism does not mean water. We agree!!!
There is only one baptism for the Christian. One, seven.
Anyone can be saved without being baptized with water...No one can be saved without being baptized with the Holy Ghost...
Where? Where does the Bible say baptism is symbolic? You say hundreds of places, I am only asking for you to show me one.
When you get baptized with water, you got baptized.........no such term in bible as water baptism.
If you get baptized with water it's not too much of a stretch to figure out you had a water baptism...
If you got baptized with coconut, you had a coconut baptism...And there's no water there because baptism does not mean water...
The bible does not tell us that New Jerusalem will be 1500 miles cubed in area but we know that to be true because the bible gives us the dimensions...We have to study to figure it out...
Was Paul telling the truth when he said there is only one baptism??? Well, no...It is easily proven that there is more than one baptism in the scriptures...And we know the bible doesn't contradict itself so you have to get that bible out and STUDY to find out what Paul was really talking about...
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