Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
It is that time of week again, where we talk about the Mary, the Mother of God. This is definitely the single most important title that Mary has. If someone gets this wrong, then they get the Divinity of our Lord wrong, and that means the whole plan of Salvation is just messed up. So let us look at this most important title.
Theotokos, God-bearer in Greek, is what the council of Ephesus declared in 431. It specifically says this “If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema.” Now just that statement alone proves the early Church believed that there was Authority given to the bishops to decide sound doctrine, Mary was a Holy Virgin her entire life, and that She bore God. However, we only have time for one today.
Now many times we will hear non-Catholics tell us that this title is nowhere found in Scripture, explicitly at least. However, they cannot themselves find a Scripture verse that says that all doctrine and dogma must be explicitly proven in Scripture. I bet they can never find that. This is a trap they set up for themselves and it is a very unfair double standard that they expect us to meet, but they do not have to. However, on top of this double standard is if we used that same standard, then the doctrine of the Trinity is thrown out, since it’s not an explicit teaching, but instead is implicit in Scripture. This double standard seems to cause more problems that it’s worth wouldn’t you say?
Here is the cold hard truth of it though, all Christians rely on some Church Tradition, as well as Scripture, to validate their doctrines, whether they admit it or not. With that being said, Scripture and Tradition can never contradict one another. The Traditions of men can contradict the Word of God, but the Traditions God left us, through Christ, in the Holy Spirit, are binding upon us, as we are to hold fast to Traditions. So then, what is the real question? The real question is, Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God, and is that doctrine found in Scripture at least implicitly?
Let us begin with Luke 1:43, where Mary visited Elizabeth. There Elizabeth exclaimed “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Because Mary was the Mother of the Lord, who is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, Mary is truly and rightfully called the Mother of God.
We also see in Isaiah 7:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is interpreted God with us.” Jesus is God. He was God when He was in the womb, conceived, lived, died, buried, resurrected, in the Eucharist, and in Heaven. The Messiah, who is God, was to be born of a virgin, according to Scripture. God was born of a virgin, and it’s right there in Isaiah, who prophesied of Christ birth. That means both Old and New Testament support the Catholic Doctrine of the Mother of God.
However, this may not be enough for some non-Catholics. Some say that Elisabeth called Christ Lord, and not God, saying that Mary was only to give birth to the human child, the Lord Jesus Christ. So then the question becomes, does lord here mean divinity or just authority? Let’s look at the context.
First let us look at 1 Cor. 8:5, which states “Indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” St. Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the one True, Lord, as opposed to all the false ones, that the pagans who converted in Corinth were probably worshiping. So then, they would understand that Jesus is God. This holds true to the Jews who converted too, who would know Deut. 6:4 “Hear, therefore, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
So then that brings us back to Luke 1:43. Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of her Lord. The Mother…Mothers give birth to persons, not natures, let us remember that. Mary did not just give birth to the human nature of Christ, she gave birth to the person of Christ. Christ personhood is Divine, it is God the Son.
Then let us look at 2 Sam. 6:9 where the King, who was David says “How can the ark of the Lord come to me (being the ark of the covenant)” Then in 2 Samuel 616 we see King David leaping in the presence of the Ark, just as John the Baptist did. Then we yet again see another parallel, which says that the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite for three months (2 Sam. 6:11), and according to Luke 1:56 Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth about three months. Then, we see that the ark of the covenant carried three items, manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s rod. These are all types of things Christ are, the Bread of Life, Word made Flesh, and our true High Priest.
Even knowing all this though, there are still those who would deny that Mary is the Mother of God. So then we have to ask, who is Jesus Christ to them? If Mary is not the Mother of God, then who did she give birth to? Many would say it was an earthly human lord, not God. So then, what does that make Christ? If Mary did not give birth to God, then who did she give birth to? Was not Christ God when He was conceived?
If someone says Mary only gave birth to the person of Christ one of two errors, or both could happen, and that is the Denial of the divinity of Christ, and that one would have to say Christ is two distinct persons, and that he is not One. Both were considered heresy in the Early Church. Christ is one Person, with two natures, Divine and Human, which go together and are not separate of one another. If one denies that, the ultimately they are speaking about a different Christ, and St. Paul warns us about that problem, and to not to give heed to them (2 Cor. 11:4).
So then, some say that Mary is the mother of the Trinity if we take it that far, however, this is not true. Mary gave birth to the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2nd Person, who is still God just not the Trinity. However, we must never forget that each Person in the Trinity shares the same Divine Nature and is fully God.
One thing some still point out is that Christ is eternal, so for Mary to be the Mother of God she would have to be God. However the Church does not say Mary is the source of the Divine Nature of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. To better understand this let’s look at humanity. Parents give birth to a person, however they are not the author of life, and certainly did not give the child it’s soul. Thus is true with Mary, she did not give Christ His Divine Nature, though she was the Mother of more than just the human form of Christ, because she gave birth to a person, who was God.
It’s useless discussing issues with those who graft in different phrases that do NOT exist in the Bible.
Let's just LOOK at that passage...
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
??? So; just WHO are the sons of God and the daughters of humans??? The BOOK says: Let Us create Man in Our image. So there you get some 'sons of God'; right?? The BOOK also says, in Genesis 5:3-4 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
If you deny that Mary is DEAD; then you'd better has something MORE than mere speculation to back up your opinion.
USe all the strawmen you wish to try to convuince folks; the FACT remains that the Holy Spirit did NOT record your pet phase in the BIBLE.
Oh?
Did Jesus exist before Mary was born?
Well...
...his chosen denomination does.
But; then again; it has had LOTS of practice!
Most certainly she is the Gate of Heaven, and this calendar of her feasts brings to mind one of Our Lady’s titles each day, and the constant help she has been to Christians since the founding of the Church.
(More titles of Mary are found in the Marian Calendar section of this website.) http://www.roman-catholic-saints.com/titles-of-mary.html
There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;
If merely 1% of them 'ask' Mary for help just once each day;
that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.
Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)
...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!
Purty good fer someone NOT 'divine'!
NOW you've done it!
Upset our FR Mormons; a few of which will be pinged now so they can chastise you!
Oh!
The Mormon Church Teaches That: |
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How can Mormons claim they believe in the virgin birth if God had sex with Mary? |
They change the definition of the word virgin. Mormons feel that they can still use the phrase "virgin birth" because God was an IMMORTAL being who had sex with Mary, not a mere mortal man. And this is exactly what Bruce McConkie, (top LSD theologian, and one of the Mormon 12 Apostles, died in 1985) said:
In other words, if Joseph had sex with Mary she would not have been a virgin, but since God had sex with Mary, she remains a virgin.
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B. Gods Must Have Wives
C. Mary And God Were Married
D. Joseph was Her Second Husband
E. The Bible Is Wrong
F. God Is A Man
G. An Act Of The Flesh
H. Not Of The Holy Ghost
I. Bruce R. McConkie, deceased member of the 12 Apostles (d.1985) and leading LDS theologian, writes in Mormon Doctrine:
Is it not ironic that you just added to the scripture in your post ?
How so?
“A man issued statement?? Over the Word?? No.”
You do understand, I hope, that what you read as The Word was determined, correctly, to be The Word by some councils of Latin and Greek speaking bishops who measured the contending writings for inclusion in the canon of Scripture by measuring them against Holy Tradition, what The Church always and everywhere believed, under the guidance of The Holy Spirit. The Ecumenical Councils which established the dogmas of The Church operated the exact same way (well, almost the exact same way. The canon of scripture in some instances was the result of deals; We’ll agree to including Revelations if you’ll agree to include Hebrews.)!
NKJ version. Your Catholic Bible may have it worded/edited differently for doctrinal purposes.
I notice the early writings on Mary were not included in the canon.....so what does that same about them??
Two strikes (errors) now; try linking to what you think is the scripture and you may correct yourself for adding to the scripture. I find it interesting how intended curses tend to rebound. One might call it the Baalam effect.
Mormons and Protestants agree that Mary is not special, sinned like everyone, should NOT be venerated and is just an ordinary women chosen to be the vessel to bring Jesus into the world. This Mormon/Protestant teaching (which came about in the 1600s for protestants and the 1800s for Mormons) is very far removed from early Christianity, which never taught that.
How Mary being "a virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins" (1 Nephi 11:15) and "a precious and chosen vessel" is rendering Mary to be "just an ordinary women" is an example of Catholic reasoning, as is making a religion to be "Protestant that denies the miraculous, and teaches Mary is a product of a god who is an exalted evolved man of flesh and bones."
In addition, being an ordinary women chosen to be the vessel to bring Jesus into the world
Moreover, Mary as as seen via preeminent Prot. historical commentators is consistent with Scripture says about Mary in contrast to her being an sinless, most holy, perpetual virgin. almost almighty demigodess, dispenser of all grace, who is to be bowed, beseeched and prayed to in Heaven.
font color="#4c1900">Mary is not said to be any of such in Scripture, but is presented as i said, as a holy reverent, worshipful Spirit-filled surrendered instrument of God. Mary was highly favored As being chosen in preference to all the women upon earth, to be the mother of the Messiah. Not the mother of God, for that is blasphemy. My spirit hath rejoiced - Exulted. These words are uncommonly emphatical - they show that Mary’s whole soul was filled with the Divine influence, and wrapped up in God. - Adam Clarke
thou art highly favoured; or graciously accepted, or hast obtained grace; not referring to electing, redeeming; justifying, pardoning, adopting, and sanctifying grace, which she had in common with other saints; but to that special and particular favour, in being chosen and singled out from all other women, to be the mother of the Messiah: - Gill
Luke 1:46-55 A magnificent canticle, in which the strain of Hannah’s ancient song, in like circumstances, is caught up, and just slightly modified and sublimed. Is it unnatural to suppose that the spirit of the blessed Virgin had been drawn beforehand into mysterious sympathy with the ideas and the tone of this hymn, so that when the life and fire of inspiration penetrated her whole soul it spontaneously swept the chorus of this song, enriching the Hymnal of the Church with that spirit-stirring canticle which has resounded ever since from its temple walls? In both songs, those holy women, filled with wonder to behold “the proud, the mighty, the rich,” passed by, and, in their persons the lowliest chosen to usher in the greatest events, sing of this as no capricious movement, but a great law of the kingdom of God, by which He delights to “put down the mighty from their seats and exalt them of low degree.” In both songs the strain dies away on Christ; in Hannah’s under the name of “Jehovah’s King” - to whom, through all His line, from David onwards to Himself, He will “give strength”; His “Anointed,” whose horn He will exalt (1Sa_2:10); in the Virgin’s song, it is as the “Help” promised to Israel by all the prophets.
Luke 1:47 my Saviour — Mary, poor heart, never dreamt, we see, of her own “immaculate conception” - in the offensive language of the Romanists - any more than of her own immaculate life. - Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown
The main difference between Mormon and Protestant theology on Mary is that Mormons make the bizzaro claim that God the Father had sex with the Virgin Mary and impregnated her with Jesus
All cults have some or many valid doctrines, including Romanism, but the issue is not how Mormon and Protestant theology on Mary agrees, but on how the former disagrees with Scripture, as also seen in paganism and cults.
I do not know of any official, consistent rejection of this title, while at one time the BOM used it for Mary, as said. And as in Mormonism Mary did give birth to Christ, and who is God, then then according to RC reasoning calling Mary the MOG would be valid if their theology of God was correct.
Catholicism accepts the term "Mother of God" for the virgin Mary, and absolutely does NOT believe God has a wife or sponse.
Wrong: Consistent with Cath. reasoning that Mary is the MOG since Christ is God, then since the Holy Spirit is God then Mary is called the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and thus Catholicism believes that God has a wife. How can you justify formally calling Mary the Mother of God under the rational that Jesus is God but deny God has a wife/spouse? You can join me in protesting that this is misleading, as inferring something pagans or cults teach.
And it has and is often taught in Catholicism that Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit:
Hail, Daughter of God the Father; hail, Mother of God the Son; hail, Spouse of God the Holy Ghost; hail, Temple of the whole Trinity. - "Glories of Mary," St. Alphonsus de Liguori; http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories15.htm ------Simon Garcia.
Kolbe, in keeping with Sacred Tradition,4 refers to Mary as the "spouse" of the Holy Spirit. But at the same time Kolbe expresses dissatisfaction with this term, saying that "spouse" is really inadequate to describe this intimate and mysterious relationship. In matrimony a man and woman become united through sacramental grace so as to become, in a mystical way, "one flesh." But Kolbe sees the union between Mary and the Holy Spirit being even more intimate than that of spouses in marriage... the Holy Spirit lives in the soul of the Immaculata, in the depths of her very being. - Manteau-Bonamy, 57, quoting from Final Sketch by Kolbe;
Mary as the spouse of the Holy Spirit is raised to such a height of perfection above all other creatures that she accomplishes in everything the will of the Holy Spirit who dwelt in her from the first instant of her conception. - Bonamy, 91, quoting from Miles Immaculatae, I, by Kolbe, 1938. https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4270
St. Louis de Montfort prays,
Holy Spirit, give me a great love and longing for Mary, your exalted spouse. Give me a great trust in her maternal heart and a continuous access to her
Mary, most faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit;
And consistent with the hyperexalation of Mary in thinking of her "above that which is written," (cf. 1Co. 4:6) he adds,
It was Mary who gave existence and life to the author of all grace, and because of this she is called the "Mother of Grace". - THE SECRET OF MARY
And besides providing further evidence of Mary being called the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, he tries to rationalize the absence of Scriptural support for his Marian ascriptions by asserting,
Even though Mary was his faithful spouse, God the Holy Spirit willed that his apostles and evangelists should say very little about her and then only as much as was necessary to make Jesus known.
Mary is the sealed fountain and the faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit where only he may enter.
God the Holy Spirit entrusted his wondrous gifts to Mary, his faithful spouse, and chose her as the dispenser of all he possesses, so that she distributes all his gifts and graces to whom she wills, as much as she wills, how she wills and when she wills. - TREATISE ON TRUE DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN St. Louis de Montfort; https://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM
Mormons have FAR more in common with protestants when it comes to their understanding of Mary.
Again, all cults have some or many valid doctrines, including Romanism, but the issue is not how Mormon and Protestant theology on Mary agrees, but on how the former disagrees with Scripture, as also seen in paganism and cults.
Peace be unto you.
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