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The black stone of Elagabal {maybe now of allah?}
http://phos-alethinon.blogspot.com/ ^

Posted on 07/23/2015 1:09:56 AM PDT by Cronos

"Elagabalus Aureus Sol Invictus" by Classical Numismatic Group, Inc.
 http://www.cngcoins.com. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons

The reverse of the imperial coin depicts horses pulling a wagon on which there is the sacred black stone from the temple of god Elagabalus in Emesa, modern Homs in Syria.

The stone was associated in Rome with the cult of Sol Invictus by Emperor Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus (c. 203 – March 11, 222).  After his death he is commonly known as Caesar Elagabalus according to this his favorite god.
The name is the Latinized form of the Syrian Ilāh hag-Gabal, which derives from Ilāh"god" and gabal "mountain" (compare Arabic: جبل‎ jabal), resulting in "the God of the Mountain" the Emesene manifestation of the deity.
Lenormant, Francois (1881). "Sol Elagabalus". Revue de l'Histoire des Religions 3: 310.

An excellent Wikipedia article tells about this stone and the cult of Elagabalus:


The cult statue was brought to Rome by the Emperor Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, who before his accession was the hereditary high priest at Emesa and is commonly called Elagabalus after the deity. The Syrian deity was assimilated with the Roman sun god known as Sol Invictus ("the Undefeated Sun").
A temple called the Elagabalium was built on the east face of the Palatine Hill, to house the holy stone of the Emesa temple, a black conical meteorite. Herodian writes of that stone:
"This stone is worshipped as though it were sent from heaven; on it there are some small projecting pieces and markings that are pointed out, which the people would like to believe are a rough picture of the sun, because this is how they see them."
Herodian Roman History V,3

Herodian also relates that Elagabalus forced senators to watch while he danced around his deity's altar to the sound of drums and cymbals, and at each summer solstice celebrated a great festival, popular with the masses because of food distributions, during which he placed the holy stone on a chariot adorned with gold and jewels, which he paraded through the city:
"A six horse chariot carried the divinity, the horses huge and flawlessly white, with expensive gold fittings and rich ornaments. No one held the reins, and no one rode in the chariot; the vehicle was escorted as if the god himself were the charioteer. Elagabalus ran backward in front of the chariot, facing the god and holding the horses reins. He made the whole journey in this reverse fashion, looking up into the face of his god."
Herodian Roman History V,3

Herodian's description strongly suggests that the Emesene cult was inspired by the Babylonian Akitu-festival.


Syncretism

"Bronze-Uranius Antoninus-Elagabal stone-SGI 4414".
Licensed under Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons
The coin by Syrian ruler Uranius shows the Elagabal stone inside the Emesa temple. His identity is not completely clear to historians of 3rd century Rome.

The Emperor also tried to bring about a union of Roman and Syrian religion under the supremacy of his deity, which he placed even above Jupiter, and to which he assigned either Astarte, Minerva or Urania, or some combination of the three, as wife.

The most sacred relics from the Roman religion were transferred from their respective shrines to the Elagabalium, including "the emblem of the Great Mother, the fire of Vesta, the Palladium, the shields of the Salii, and all that the Romans held sacred."

He reportedly also declared that Jews, Samaritans and Christians must transfer their rites to his temple so that it "might include the mysteries of every form of worship."
Wikipedia

Meteorite
A 1996 study of the Elagabal stone by Pierre M. Bellamare was published in  SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS). Titled "Meteorite sparks a cult" it identifies the stone as a meteorite.


The exact origin of the Elagabalus stone remains obscure, but in historical times its destiny was closely interwined with that of a dynasty of king-priests who had been nomads, Beduins of the desert, before settling down in Emesa to erect a shire to Elagabalus. Eventually, the cult became famous and popular, so much that Elagabalus ended up being the chief deity of the Roman Empire under the title "deus invictus Sol Elagabalus," albeit for a short period of time, between A.D. 218 and 222.
Bellamare 1996 p. 287 
Because of its apparently huge size the meteorite would be of great interest to modern astronomers. But it is possible that six horses shown in the golden coin were needed to carry not only the stone but the structures emphasizing its holiness. Similarly, the stone shown in the Uranius is hardly in scale with the temple depicted but rather a detailed image of how it looked.

Huge meteorites do not usually survive intact in Earth's atmosphere and after the impact on Earth. But the largest known stone from the sky, the Huba.meteorite in Namibia, is a single piece and weights an estimated 60 tons.

In comparison of size, the Black stone in Mecca, al-hajar al-aswed,  is 28 cm wide and 38 cm  high.


What happened to the stone?
Life of Elagabalus in the Augustan history of uncertain date (4th century?) tells that after the murder of the Emperor in 222, his religious edicts were reversed and the cult of Elagabalus returned to Emesa.

It is possible, as P.M. Bellamare suggests, that the stone was broken by Byzantine Christians. But this is speculation in the lack of any historical or archaeological evidence about the later fate of the black stone
As for the black stone, it was quietly shipped back to Syria and reinstalled in the temple of Emesa. It was probably smashed to pieces when the temple was converted into a Christian church, some time in the 4th century. The site, now occupied by a mosque, has never been excavated. All that remians of the mysterious black stone are ancient texts and a collection of iconographic documents, mostly coins.
Bellamare 1996, p. 288
It might have been smashed into pieces. Or sensing the danger priests of Elagabalus could have moved it somewhere to safety before Christians took over the ancient holy site of the temple.
"Elagabalus Aureus Sol Invictus" by Classical Numismatic Group, Inc.
 http://www.cngcoins.com. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons

The reverse of the imperial coin depicts horses pulling a wagon on which there is the sacred black stone from the temple of god Elagabalus in Emesa, modern Homs in Syria.

The stone was associated in Rome with the cult of Sol Invictus by Emperor Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus (c. 203 – March 11, 222).  After his death he is commonly known as Caesar Elagabalus according to this his favorite god.
The name is the Latinized form of the Syrian Ilāh hag-Gabal, which derives from Ilāh"god" and gabal "mountain" (compare Arabic: جبل‎ jabal), resulting in "the God of the Mountain" the Emesene manifestation of the deity.
Lenormant, Francois (1881). "Sol Elagabalus". Revue de l'Histoire des Religions 3: 310.

An excellent Wikipedia article tells about this stone and the cult of Elagabalus:


The cult statue was brought to Rome by the Emperor Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, who before his accession was the hereditary high priest at Emesa and is commonly called Elagabalus after the deity. The Syrian deity was assimilated with the Roman sun god known as Sol Invictus ("the Undefeated Sun").
A temple called the Elagabalium was built on the east face of the Palatine Hill, to house the holy stone of the Emesa temple, a black conical meteorite. Herodian writes of that stone:
"This stone is worshipped as though it were sent from heaven; on it there are some small projecting pieces and markings that are pointed out, which the people would like to believe are a rough picture of the sun, because this is how they see them."
Herodian Roman History V,3

Herodian also relates that Elagabalus forced senators to watch while he danced around his deity's altar to the sound of drums and cymbals, and at each summer solstice celebrated a great festival, popular with the masses because of food distributions, during which he placed the holy stone on a chariot adorned with gold and jewels, which he paraded through the city:
"A six horse chariot carried the divinity, the horses huge and flawlessly white, with expensive gold fittings and rich ornaments. No one held the reins, and no one rode in the chariot; the vehicle was escorted as if the god himself were the charioteer. Elagabalus ran backward in front of the chariot, facing the god and holding the horses reins. He made the whole journey in this reverse fashion, looking up into the face of his god."
Herodian Roman History V,3

Herodian's description strongly suggests that the Emesene cult was inspired by the Babylonian Akitu-festival.


Syncretism

"Bronze-Uranius Antoninus-Elagabal stone-SGI 4414".
Licensed under Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons
The coin by Syrian ruler Uranius shows the Elagabal stone inside the Emesa temple. His identity is not completely clear to historians of 3rd century Rome.

The Emperor also tried to bring about a union of Roman and Syrian religion under the supremacy of his deity, which he placed even above Jupiter, and to which he assigned either Astarte, Minerva or Urania, or some combination of the three, as wife.

The most sacred relics from the Roman religion were transferred from their respective shrines to the Elagabalium, including "the emblem of the Great Mother, the fire of Vesta, the Palladium, the shields of the Salii, and all that the Romans held sacred."

He reportedly also declared that Jews, Samaritans and Christians must transfer their rites to his temple so that it "might include the mysteries of every form of worship."
Wikipedia

Meteorite
A 1996 study of the Elagabal stone by Pierre M. Bellamare was published in  SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS). Titled "Meteorite sparks a cult" it identifies the stone as a meteorite.


The exact origin of the Elagabalus stone remains obscure, but in historical times its destiny was closely interwined with that of a dynasty of king-priests who had been nomads, Beduins of the desert, before settling down in Emesa to erect a shire to Elagabalus. Eventually, the cult became famous and popular, so much that Elagabalus ended up being the chief deity of the Roman Empire under the title "deus invictus Sol Elagabalus," albeit for a short period of time, between A.D. 218 and 222.
Bellamare 1996 p. 287 
Because of its apparently huge size the meteorite would be of great interest to modern astronomers. But it is possible that six horses shown in the golden coin were needed to carry not only the stone but the structures emphasizing its holiness. Similarly, the stone shown in the Uranius is hardly in scale with the temple depicted but rather a detailed image of how it looked.

Huge meteorites do not usually survive intact in Earth's atmosphere and after the impact on Earth. But the largest known stone from the sky, the Huba.meteorite in Namibia, is a single piece and weights an estimated 60 tons.

In comparison of size, the Black stone in Mecca, al-hajar al-aswed,  is 28 cm wide and 38 cm  high.


What happened to the stone?
Life of Elagabalus in the Augustan history of uncertain date (4th century?) tells that after the murder of the Emperor in 222, his religious edicts were reversed and the cult of Elagabalus returned to Emesa.

It is possible, as P.M. Bellamare suggests, that the stone was broken by Byzantine Christians. But this is speculation in the lack of any historical or archaeological evidence about the later fate of the black stone
As for the black stone, it was quietly shipped back to Syria and reinstalled in the temple of Emesa. It was probably smashed to pieces when the temple was converted into a Christian church, some time in the 4th century. The site, now occupied by a mosque, has never been excavated. All that remians of the mysterious black stone are ancient texts and a collection of iconographic documents, mostly coins.
Bellamare 1996, p. 288
It might have been smashed into pieces. Or sensing the danger priests of Elagabalus could have moved it somewhere to safety before Christians took over the ancient holy site of the temple.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: elagabal; elagabalus; elgabalus; godsgravesglyphs; islam; kaaba; mecca; romanempire; wot
I wonder if the Emesa priests took the black stone down south to Mecca? After all, when the Palmyrene Empire came to be, it initially ruled lands right up to the Hejaz

It's not hard to believe that they went south to the lands just outside the reach of the Empire and between the Empire and the Axumite Empire.

1 posted on 07/23/2015 1:09:57 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

Could be the best theory I have read on the stone.


2 posted on 07/23/2015 1:23:04 AM PDT by patriotfury (May the fleas and flatulence of a thousand camels occupy mo' ham mads tent!)
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To: Cronos

Thanks for the post.


3 posted on 07/23/2015 1:23:34 AM PDT by patriotfury (May the fleas and flatulence of a thousand camels occupy mo' ham mads tent!)
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To: Cronos
It's artfully reproduced (no pun intended) original appearance on the coins certainly reminds me of First Millennium descriptions of the idol housed at the kaaba, IIRC today alone at a much older desert pilgrimage site that was for centuries a central location for more than two hundred similarly revered idols "of every description."

Presently, "there is no other god" than Allah, and Hajar-al-Aswad is now alone at this focus of all Muslim worship, at Mecca.

I suppose it's no stretch.


4 posted on 07/23/2015 2:34:29 AM PDT by Prospero (Omnis caro fenum)
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To: Prospero


5 posted on 07/23/2015 10:23:11 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: SunkenCiv; blam; Gamecock; markomalley; NYer; Salvation; boatbums
What do you think? I strongly believe that the Black stone of the Kaaba in Mecca is from this stone of emesa

The name of Al-ilah el gabal (the god of the moountains) parallels Al-illah (Allah = the god). The followers of Elgabalus had to be circumcised and were not allowed to eat pork.

The walking around the Kaaba 7 times is also an old semitic practice

6 posted on 07/23/2015 9:32:26 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos

The circling of the kaaba is a survival from the days of the worship of Saturn — the circling mimicking the rings, which were somehow known in ancient times. The kaaba itself used to have a large, seated idol, roundish and human-like, perhaps even buddha-like, and the site of course antedates Elagabalus (who eventually castrated himself as part of his religion, if memory serves) by millennia. It’s *possible* that the Black Stone was added much later, obviously. The idol, as well as the statues which used to line the avenue to the shrine, was destroyed eventually by the muzzies, clearly alterations have been made. The staircase that used to run from one corner up to the top of the kaaba was filled in long ago, for another example.


7 posted on 07/23/2015 11:48:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW)
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To: SunkenCiv

worship of Saturn? can you explain more? I thought most early civilisations worshipped the Sun and Moon and at the most Jupiter.


8 posted on 07/23/2015 11:52:35 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: SunkenCiv

Right now I think that possible Mohammed used the logic of a monotheistic religion revolving around the worship of the black rock as a way to unify the Arab tribes.


9 posted on 07/23/2015 11:53:59 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos

It’s a puzzle and will remain puzzling, due to the guesswork involved.

World’s oldest telescope? [ Assyrian telescope? ]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1879740/posts


10 posted on 07/24/2015 12:06:02 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW)
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To: Cronos

I was suddenly struck by the, uh, irony, or somethin’:

http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanKronos.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus


11 posted on 07/24/2015 12:08:11 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW)
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To: Cronos

That could be true, regardless. He didn’t invent anything, apart from the mindf***, he just used what was around.


12 posted on 07/24/2015 12:09:35 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW)
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To: SunkenCiv
In my opinion, if we tear away religious sensibilities, it is clear that Mohammed's religion is a mish-mash of Gnosticism, Nestorian and Orthodox Christianity merged with Zoroastrian dualism and arabic paganism. To me its also clear that the Arabs are powerful when united, bt that has always been short-lived (remember T.E. Lawrence's speech "Unless the arabs are united, you will always be a small people")

Plus the clear appeal of islam to warrior men in its doctrines and living

13 posted on 07/24/2015 12:41:57 AM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

14 posted on 07/24/2015 5:08:07 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW)
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To: Cronos

The Major Religions of the World ....Revisited: The Significance of Mecca
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2770618/posts

Travels in Arabia, by John Lewis Burckhardt
Some Historical Notices Concerning the Kaaba, and the Temple of Mekka; Extracted from the Works of El Azraky, El Fasy, Kotobeddyn, and Asamy, Writers More Particularly Mentioned in the Introduction.
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/b/burckhardt/john_lewis/arabia/chapter10.html

[snip] An Arab of Kossay, named Ammer Ibn Lahay, first introduced idolatry among his countrymen; he brought the idol, called Hobal, from Hyt, in Mesopotamia, [See El Azraky.] and set it up at the Kaaba. Idolatry then spread rapidly; and it seems that almost every Arab tribe chose its own god or tutelar divinity; and that, considering the Kaaba as a Pantheon common to them all, they frequented it in pilgrimage. The date-tree, called Ozza, says Azraky, was worshipped by the tribe of Khozaa; and the Beni Thekyf adored the rock called El Lat; a large tree, called Zat Arowat, was revered by the Koreysh; the holy places, Muna, Szafa, Meroua, had their respective saints or demi-gods; and the historians give a long list of other deities. The number of idols increased so much, that one was to be found in every house and tent of this valley; and the Kaaba was adorned with three hundred and sixty of them, corresponding probably to the days of the year. [/snip]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2770618/posts?page=3#3

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?
by P.N. Oak
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2770618/posts?page=8#8

Is Kaaba an ancient Hindu Shiva Temple confiscated by Muhammad during raids?
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/is-the-kaaba-an-ancient-hindu-shiva-temple-confiscated-by-mohammed/comment-page-4/

Is Kaaba in Mecca actually a lord Shiva Lingam?
http://www.quora.com/Is-Kaaba-in-Mecca-actually-a-lord-Shiva-Lingam

Kaaba, a Hindu Temple, Stolen by Muslims
http://haribhakt.com/kaaba-a-hindu-temple-stolen-by-muslims/

Kaaba of Mecca and The Hindu connection?
http://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/7224/kaaba-of-mecca-and-the-hindu-connection

Mecca was a Hindu Temple?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100623071329AAZdev6

Shiva Linga In Mecca, OM Is 786?
https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/shiva-linga-in-mecca-om-is-786/

You know that.. Kaaba was a Hindu Temple taken over by Muslims
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/178056


15 posted on 07/24/2015 10:00:01 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW)
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