Why I'm Still Catholic (And Why Other People Aren't)

catholic365.com ^ | 6/24/2015 | y Anabelle Hazard

[Rockingham]

And so it happens that there are Christians who expand the authority of Scripture beyond its proper scope and who then end up endorsing slavery and denying evolution. As it happens, in addition to Scripture, God also provides us with reason and the capacity to learn from experience. Why should these be denied any role in matters of faith and moral reasoning?

[vladimir998]

“So are you saved ???”

I am redeemed (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2), and if I remain true to Christ I will enter heaven.

“Are you sure of your salvation??”

I have an assurance of salvation, but not a presumption of salvation as Protestants falsely do. I am sure that Christ redeemed me. I am also sure that I am human and must not reject Christ through sin if I want to enter Heaven. Thus, as Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; 25:31–46). Salvation is not a feeling. It is a fact - a fact that comes to full flower when we leave this life in union with God. “See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21). Thus, just as it says in Philippians 2:12, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

[RnMomof7]

if I remain true to Christ I will enter heaven.

Then you do not have a Savior.. you have a probationary officer

[CynicalBear]

>>And so it happens that there are Christians who expand the authority of Scripture beyond its proper scope and who then end up endorsing slavery and denying evolution.<<

Um...say what? Denying evolution is counter to scripture in your view? Surely you can't be serious. Believing in evolution is counter to scripture.

>>Why should these be denied any role in matters of faith and moral reasoning?<<

Because man's heart is corrupt that's why.

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

Mark 7:21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

Man's "reason" is why America is in the deplorable situation it is in today.

[CynicalBear]

>>The book, as a collection, was put together by the early Church<<

Which one of the apostles was not Jewish? It is they who wrote scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Peter called Paul's writings scripture. You can play all the silly word games you want but it was God who told us the Jews were entrusted with His word. Catholics changed, twisted, and added words to scripture.

[vladimir998]

“Then you do not have a Savior.. you have a probationary officer.”

You can deny what scriptures says, but I choose not to:

Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; 25:31–46).

“See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

Philippians 2:12, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

[Rockingham]

Yet consider Isaiah 1:18-19: "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool. "If you consent and obey, You will eat the best of the land . . ."

Read fairly, these and other passages demonstrate God's call for us to exercise our capacity for reason.

[avenir]

“You can deny what scriptures says, but I choose not to...”

We can all grab Scripture bytes and jab each other, but what is the lesson of the WHOLE?

God proved, laboriously so, that man ain’t got da goods! Right there in Leviticus 18:5 you read, “Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them”. Many years later the Spirit has Paul write:

“For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says...” (Romans 10)

The law is not of faith, but one could listen to endless sermons and read endless encyclicals & Catechisms and never know it. But it’s right there in SCRIPTURE. What happened between Deuteronomy and Romans to change “the person who does the commandments shall live by them” to “not of faith”?

For one a Stumbling Stone was laid!

““Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 9:33)

Anyone who chooses to follow Israel’s errant path of trying to pursue righteousness as if by works is toast, since “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law and do them” (Galatians 3:10)

James reiterates this fatal situation in his letter (2:10): “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”

For your consideration.

[BipolarBob]

Read fairly, these and other passages demonstrate God's call for us to exercise our capacity for reason.

Indeed they do. Which is why we don't let a magisterium do our thinking for us on salvation. However, the heart can lead us astray, like it did Eve. Therefore we have to be on guard at all times that emotions do not overrule common sense. It is the same with "Judge not, lest ye be judged". That does not tell me not to judge, but if I do so then it should be righteously. Gods Word is like a lamp unto my feet. It shows me the path.

[vladimir998]

“We can all grab Scripture bytes and jab each other, but what is the lesson of the WHOLE?”

The whole of scripture is simple in this regard: No one can cling to sin unrepentant and be saved.

[Jack Black]

There is a lot of Hebrew scripture that isn't in the Bible. You get this, right? There is a great deal of New Testament-era scripture that was rejected for inclusion in the Bible. You get this too, right?

The Bible is, therefore, an anthology. Here is the Wikipedia intro on the article on "anthology":

An anthology is a collection of literary works chosen by the compiler. It may be a collection of poems, short stories, plays, songs, or excerpts. In genre fiction anthology is used to categorize collections of shorter works such as short stories and short novels, usually collected into a single volume for publication.

The complete collections of works are often called Complete Works or Opera Omnia (Latin language equivalent).

In any anthology the "compiler", or editor as we more typically call them, is usually credited as the creator of the anthology. Or, in simple terms the person who the anthology is "by". Most modern anthologies either have the word "anthology" in the title, or are called "the book of" and are credited to the editor/complier. It is implied in this that the editor wrote little or no material in the anthology.

For instance:

John Wain is the editor of the anthology.

The Bible, if titled using today's nomenclature would be called something like:
"An Anthology of Ancient Hebrew Sacred Writings and Other Stories about Jesus of Nazarath"
- by The Synods of the early Church, circa 390 AD.

(Hippo being usually considered the most important in terms of fixing the inclusion of works).

From an immense number of writings an anthology was created, which many hold sacred, while holding the writings of the same era outside of the anthology less than sacred.

Therefore a lot of important judgements were made in determining this, judgements (that with the exceptions of a few deletions) have been accepted by all Christians since, including especially the Protestant sects. Even educated fundamentalist Christians accept this history of the bible: it is an anthology of works written by men, and edited by a later group of based on thier religious knoweldge. Those editing decisions were made by the Bishops of the early Church and approved the Bishop of Rome (aka the Pope). That was Pope Siricius.

The "sciptura" that the Protestant sects believe are "sola" needed for their religion were selected, organized and published based on the insights, preferences and knowledge of the early Catholic Church.

[Jack Black]

Which one of the apostles was not Jewish?

Luke was Greece. Some say he was an Hellenic Jew, many think he was not.

From Wikipedia:

Luke the Evangelist (Ancient Greek: Λουκᾶς, Loukás) is one of the Four Evangelists—the four authors of canonical Gospels of Jesus Christ. Luke was a native of the Hellenistic city of Antioch in Syria. The early church fathers ascribed to him authorship of both the Gospel according to Luke and the book of Acts of the Apostles, which originally formed a single literary work, referred to as Luke-Acts. Prominent figures in early Christianity such as Jerome and Eusebius later reaffirmed his authorship, although within scholarly circles, both secular and religious, discussions have taken place due to the lack of evidence as to the identity of the author of the works.

The New Testament mentions Luke briefly a few times, and the Pauline epistle to the Colossians refers to him as a doctor; thus he is thought to have been both a physician and a disciple of Paul. Christians since the faith's early years have regarded him as a saint. He is believed to have died a martyr, although accounts of the events do vary.

Little is known about the author of the Book of Revelation.

The Book of Revelation, often known simply as Revelation or The Apocalypse, is a book of the New Testament that occupies a central place in Christian eschatology. Its title is derived from the first word of the text, written in Koine Greek: apokalypsis, meaning "unveiling" or "revelation". The Book of Revelation is the only apocalyptic document in the New Testament canon (although there are short apocalyptic passages in various places in the Gospels and the Epistles).[a]

The author names himself in the text as "John", but his precise identity remains a point of academic debate. Evidence for identifying the author as John the Apostle comes from second-century writers such as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Melito the bishop of Sardis, and Clement of Alexandria and the Muratorian fragment.[1] Other scholars oppose this view,[2] proposing that nothing can be known about the author except that he was a Christian prophet.[3] The bulk of traditional sources date the book to the reign of the emperor Domitian (AD 81-96), and the external and internal evidence tends to confirm this.[4]

Even the other books usually credited to the Apostle John have been the subject of debate over authorship since 200 AD. For more on these questions see the full article on John the Apostle.

We simply don't really know with any certainty who wrote most of the Bible.

[RnMomof7]

Philippians 2:12, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

The problem with proof texting ..

Philippians 2: 12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Ya need to pay attention to ALL of John 6... not just the ones Romans like

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Our salvation is not based on our faithfulness... but His..

As I said Catholics have no Savior.. they have a parole officer

[RnMomof7]

The "sciptura" that the Protestant sects believe are "sola" needed for their religion were selected, organized and published based on the insights, preferences and knowledge of the early Catholic Church.

There was no "Roman Catholic church " when the scriptures were written , or organized... as a matter of fact..Rome never "closed" the canon until after the reformation ....

Haven't you ever thought it "funny" that if Rome gave us the scriptures ..they contain no mass, no priests , no vestments, no 7 sacraments, no holy water, no prayer to the dead ...etc etc...

[vladimir998]

“The problem with proof texting ..”

And here’s where you embarrass yourself. . . again. You posted:

“13for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.”

And that’s exactly Catholic doctrine. See CCC 308, 1949. You’re “proof texting” overturns nothing I said but only proves it further.

“Our salvation is not based on our faithfulness... but His..”

So we can renounce Christ and be saved you’re saying? Yes, that IS WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. In reality we must remain true.

[RnMomof7]

So we can renounce Christ and be saved you’re saying? Yes, that IS WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. In reality we must remain true.

If God is working in us to do HIS good pleasure the elect will never fall away .... held in His hand..doing the will of His Father

John 6 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Not my words His WORDS

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

[vladimir998]

“If God is working in us to do HIS good pleasure the elect will never fall away .... held in His hand..doing the will of His Father”

We are free. We have free will. God does not force us to love and serve Him. We choose. Godly men can fall. We must stay true. 2 Timothy 4:7

[RnMomof7]

We are free. We have free will. God does not force us to love and serve Him. We choose. Godly men can fall. We must stay true. 2 Timothy 4:7

So then jesus lied.. so much for that sinless savior

[vladimir998]

“So then jesus lied.. so much for that sinless savior”

Nope. He never once lied. But men lie. Protestant anti-Catholics do it here for instance. Godly men can fall. We must remain true to God. He is always faithful. We are not. He does not save us against our will. He does not force us into Heaven. We choose.