1.) Authority-.... The Authority of the New Testament Church is the Word of God...Jesus is the foundation of the New Testament Church... “For ‘no other’ foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1st Corinthians 3:11). Jesus is the Authority of the New Testament Church.
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The Bible is the believers FINAL AUTHORITY on all matters. This is the insurmountable difference between Christianity and all other religious beliefs, teachings, dogmas and philosophies...additionally The Church is a group of “called out believers” regardlessless of their denomination or church affliation (Matthew 18:20)
2.) History- Though stated by catholics thatThe Roman Catholic Church is the oldest church the Islamic faith has lasted for centuries as well...therefore the argument for years is mute....Additionally the beliefs and teachings of the Church were written down for us as the Spirit of God moved the authors of the Bible to write....which is why the Bible is the ultimate authority and guide for life now and everlasting.
3.) The Jews gave Christians the first five Books of the Bible .. ‘The first’ official’list of books contained is what is the Bible ....cathlicism did not.....The process of writing and recognizing the New Testament books began long before the Roman Catholic Church even existed. The night before the Lord was crucified, He told His disciples that they, empowered by the Holy Spirit, would bear witness to His life and teaching:..John 15:26,27 tells us...”When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness of Me, and you will bear witness also, because you have been with Me from the beginning. ..... the role that church councils played in the process is often overstated by Roman Catholics.
The first councils to have addressed the question as to which books were inspired and were rightfully part of the Bible appear to have been the North African Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397). The list of books accepted by the Council of Hippo ‘no longer exists’..... The Council of Carthage, however, is believed to have repeated the same list and its decree on the matter is extant.
Both councils were regional synods. They were not universal or ecumenical councils. About 50 bishops from the provinces of Africa attended each. These councils did not have authority to speak for the whole fourth-century church....It is also important to note that by the time these councils addressed the matter at the close of the fourth century, the canon or list of books recognized as forming the New Testament was well established.
important to notice is that the New Testament canon was not demarcated by the arbitrary decree of any Church Council. When at last a Church Council, the Synod of Carthage in A.D. 397, listed the twenty-seven books of the New Testament, it did not confer upon them any authority which they did not already possess, but simply recorded their previously established canonicity. iv
Furthermore, the decision reached by these councils has never been universally accepted. The controversy centers around writings referred to by Roman Catholic scholars as the deuterocanonicals and by Protestant scholars as the Apocrypha. In that non-Catholics have never accepted the decision of the councils to accept the Apocrypha as part of the Bible, it can hardly be argued that were it not for the Roman Catholic Church no one would know with certainty which books belong in the Bible.
4.) The Sacraments..... the Lord instituted ‘only two sacraments’ baptism and the Lord’s Supper given to His body of believers ecorded in the Bible...Jesus made no command or even mention of the remaining sacraments practiced by the Catholic Church...those are man made.. the sacraments are never tied to our salvation in any way (except that they may follow salvation). Consequently, since the Catholic church’s teaching on sacraments is inconsistent with Scripture, this demonstrates that the doctrine of magisterium is also false
....Scripture is also very clear that these two sacraments are symbolic, ‘visible signs of an inward grace’.. rather just as the Jews had been commanded to celebrate Passover ‘as a remembrance’ of the day the Lord passed over their first born while still in Egypt....These sacraments themselves do not confer grace; ‘they represent the grace already made’ available to believers. Consequently, sacraments bear no relationship to our salvation. , Just as being baptized does not make one a Christian....The thief on the cross was not baptized nor did he participate in communion, yet the Lord said he would be with Him in Paradise that day.
5.) Sola Scriptura simply stated, is that the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone ‘are sufficien’t to function as the the “rule of faith” for the body of believers which is the church.. All that one must believe to be a Christian is found in Scripture and in no other source. That which is not found in Scripture is not binding upon the Christian conscience....Further..Scripture authority comes God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is ‘always subject to the Word’....As is written in Timothy 3:16-17, ....”All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for instruction, for training in righteousness, in order that the man of God might be complete, fully equipped for every good work.”..Traditions are not God-breathed and, hence, are subject to examination on the part of the higher authority of Scripture.
The Church is not left without the voice of God. Therefore, when the Church listens to Scripture, she is hearing her Lord speaking to her. The authority of the Church then, in teaching, and rebuking, and instructing, is derived, despite Roman Catholic claims to the contrary, from Scripture itself. the Roman position is contradicted by that of the Apostle. ... no other ‘rule of faith’ is necessary so that the man of God is equipped for every good work. No other rule of faith, that is, than the Scriptures.
Where did you learn this? You have some of the truth but not all of it.
With all due respect to Morgana, points 2-5 of the OP have been discussed/debated/argued vehemently ad naueum on here for literally years I see no profit in continuing so (at least not with the same people). However the first point raised in what she posted is something continuously missed by every non Catholic here, including you caww now.
With due respect you are missing the point of point #1. It’s simply: what does Matt 18:15-18 mean in a non Catholic Christian community, practically speaking? It seems to me if Joe Schmo is kicked out of the First Independent Presbyterian Church on Main Street for whatever reason he can just go to the First Baptist Church on Elm Street in Anytown USA. In other words, “let him be anathema” has no meaning practically speaking in the non Catholic communities.
Am I wrong (is the OP wrong)? Someone, anyone, tell me what it means when someone is kicked out of a local congregation? Who’s to prevent that person from going to another congregation, joining that one and just pretending like there’s nothing wrong? Really the question is, how does that person kicked out KNOW they are out of the church as a body, when all they have to do is go down the street and join another congregation?
It seems to me if there is no heirarchy in the church to make such decisions then there’s no way to tell such a person that they are not only not welcome in that congregation but also not welcome in any congregation in other words they are out, and better repent of their sins. Otherwise the passage in Mat 18 has no meaning. It is a useless passage that wouldn’t serve anyone.