Posted on 06/25/2015 7:00:52 PM PDT by Morgana
There are many reasons the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church of Jesus Christ, however, some of those reasons are necessary for discussions with those outside the Catholic Church. Jesus prayed for unity of believers and unity begins with understanding. The understanding of the Churchs beliefs is essential in working toward that unity. Here are some key reasons to keep in mind when speaking to non-Catholics:
1.) Authority- Jesus gave specific instructions regarding dealing with members of the Church who were in sin. Matthew 18:15-18 says If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. What Evangelical/Protestant Church has the authority to remove someone completely from the church? None. If an individual is removed from a congregation then he/she can go down the street and join another congregation of the same denomination. The congregations are individualized and have no authority outside their own denomination. That is not true with the Catholic Church. If removed from the Catholic Church, one cannot go to another city and join another Catholic Parish.
2.) History- The Roman Catholic Church is the oldest and original Christian Church, therefore, the beliefs and teachings of the Church were directly passed onto the leaders of the Catholic Church by the apostles. The Catholic Church began with the teachings of Jesus Christ, around 1st Century AD in the province of Judea of the Roman Empire. The Catholic Church is the continuation of the early Christian community established by Jesus and no modern Christian Church can make that claim. By the end of the 2nd century, bishops began congregating in regional synods and to correct doctrinal and policy issues and by the time the 3rd century came around, the Bishop of Rome (Pope) served as the decisive authority, kind of like a court of appeals, for problems and issues the bishops could not resolve. This is identical to the Bibles teaching. In Exodus 18 we see where the children of Israel brought their disputes to Moses and Moses settled those disputes. However, it also shows where leaders appointed by Moses also worked to settle disputes.
The Catholic Church remained the only Christian Church until the East-West Schism of 1054, which caused medieval Christianity to split and become two separate branches. The greatest division, however, came during the Reformation from 1517-1648, led by Martin Luther. The East-West (Great) Schism was caused by Patriarch Michael I. According to Titus 3:9-11, the divisions led by Patriarch Michael I and Martin Luther were sin. Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile. After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic, realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned..
3.) The Catholic Church gave Christians the Bible- The first official list of books contained is what is the Bible was done at the Council of Hippo in 393 and then again in Carthage in 397 and 419. However, the Council of Trent in 1556 was the first time the Church infallibly defined these books as inspired because it was questioned by Reformers. We have to admit, the apostles did not walk around with nice leather bound Bibles in their hand. There are many parts of the Bible that are oral tradition which was written down because when early believers attended the Synagogue or church, the scripture was read. They did not have their own copy with their name engraved on the front. Oral tradition was the norm of practice long before writing and reading was a part of life. The Jews followed the Old Testament before Jesus was born and Jesus is pictured in Scripture reading from the Old Testament in the Synagogue. There were multiple writings from this time but it was only after the list of books determined to be the inspired Word of God by the Catholic Church first with the Council of Hippo in 393 that the world had what is called The Bible. The Bible remained the original 73 books determined by the Catholic Church until the Reformation, when Martin Luther threw out 7 books of the Old Testament that disagreed with his personal view of theology the same Old Testament adhered to by the Jews. He threw these 6 books out in the 16th Century. Luther also attempted to throw out New Testament books James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation. In referring to James, he said he wanted to throw Jimmy into the fire and the book of James was an epistle of straw with no usefulness. After Pope Damasus I approved the 27 New Testament Books however in 382 AD, Luther agreed with the Pope and accepted the New Testament books but denied the Old Testament books which remained out of his Bible. Non-Catholics will accept the Biblical books which are contained in the Protestant Bible but do not acknowledge they are accepting and trusting the authority of the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church was the one who proclaimed the entire list, as a whole, as inspired. The letters within the Bible are not the only letters and materials written by the Apostles so, as a result, those contained within the Bible had to be declared inspired and it was the Catholic Church which did that duty.
4.) The Sacraments are Biblical- The Apostles were given the power to forgive sins in John 20:23, Peter taught in I Peter 3:21 that baptism now saves you, anointing the sick with oil was shown in James 5:14-15, laying on of hands in Acts 8:17 and 2 Timothy 1:6, marriage in the Lord in I Corinthians 7:39 and Jesus stated numerous times that the disciples should participate in the breaking of bread (Eucharist) by stating he who eats my flesh has eternal life.
5.) Sola Scriptura is not supported in the Bible- It is difficult to make a claim such as Sola Scriptura (The Bible Alone) when, in its very essence, the claim must be written within the Bible in order to be Biblical. The concept of Bible Alone says it is not truth if it is not contained in the Bible, therefore removing tradition, but the Bible refutes that principle. Jeremiah 25:3 says the Word of the Lord is spoken, not just written. Paul told us to hold to our traditions, which are taught by word and mouth or by letter, according to 2 Thess 2:15. The Bible also portrays where a Council was held to settle doctrinal disputes in Acts 15. (Who else has a Council to settle doctrine disputes and holds the authority to do such other than the Catholic Church?) The Bible also warns about twisted interpretations of Scripture in 2 Peter 3:16 and I Timothy 3:15 says THE CHURCH is the pillar and the bulwark of the truth. The Catholic Church has one teaching
one unified teaching
as opposed to the now 43,000 evangelical (Protestant) groups currently established, with 2.3 added each day. Their views on everything from the Trinity, homosexuality, abortion, and salvation all contradict each other. Truth cannot be false at the same time and Truth cannot contradict each other.
Concur
Yes, JESUS had authority.
So?
God's word is truth.
Where the Catholic church lines up with that, it's fine.
Where it departs, it's wrong.
And besides, what truth? That you can't be sure where you're going when you die until you get there? THAT'S the kind of "salvation" Jesus died for?
Maybe your Jesus, but not the one of Scripture.
Show us where Christ specifically says He was founding the CATHOLIC church.
I can’t seem to find the word *Catholic* anywhere in the Bible.
“Every church is a construct of man”.
I would expound upon this, every man made religion is a counterfeit, and inspired not by God or the Holy Spirit. Maybe as Freud might have put it, they attempt to satisfy a basic human need, but they always fall short.
True religion is founded by God. Whether it is the covenants He made with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David, or their fulfillment in the revelation of the Incarnate Word, only those covenants have validity.
The Catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ, the chosen instrument, chosen by Jesus Christ, through which He shares with all generations the Good News of His salvation and the overflowing fountain of Grace he won for our redemption on the cross.
That there are divisions, scandals, and rifts that do not heal are a sad reminder of how poorly we cooperate with the graces available to us. But even so, we pray as the publican prayed, not as the Pharisee. We rally to the Barque of Peter as the storms rage, and we find consolation in the Sacraments because Christ is there, just like He said He would be.
Which is the bigger miracle; that the Catholic Church is founded by Christ on the Apostles and guided by the Holy Spirit, or it has survived two thousand years allegedly as a total fraud?
What crapola. The True Church is the conglomeration of those who claim and preach Christ as their Savior. Catholicism happens to be one of the institutions that contains such folks. Is your Jesus also better than everyone else’s Jesus?
Survival of the church in spite of man’s inclinations...
Just like america is great as americans are good, not necessarily their leaders
“The Catholic Church gave Christians the Bible”
Really? Nothing here about the Jews writing the Old Testament??
Nothing here about Nicea and the New Testament?
“The Catholic denomination, is one that almost always votes pro-abortion democrat.”
I noticed that, too.
It’s one of their robotic, low information, memorized talking points. The Catholic church likes to keep them dumbed down. If you notice, the same exact, word for word line is posted at least once a day.
With all due respect to Morgana, points 2-5 of the OP have been discussed/debated/argued vehemently ad naueum on here for literally years I see no profit in continuing so (at least not with the same people). However the first point raised in what she posted is something continuously missed by every non Catholic here, including you caww now.
With due respect you are missing the point of point #1. It’s simply: what does Matt 18:15-18 mean in a non Catholic Christian community, practically speaking? It seems to me if Joe Schmo is kicked out of the First Independent Presbyterian Church on Main Street for whatever reason he can just go to the First Baptist Church on Elm Street in Anytown USA. In other words, “let him be anathema” has no meaning practically speaking in the non Catholic communities.
Am I wrong (is the OP wrong)? Someone, anyone, tell me what it means when someone is kicked out of a local congregation? Who’s to prevent that person from going to another congregation, joining that one and just pretending like there’s nothing wrong? Really the question is, how does that person kicked out KNOW they are out of the church as a body, when all they have to do is go down the street and join another congregation?
It seems to me if there is no heirarchy in the church to make such decisions then there’s no way to tell such a person that they are not only not welcome in that congregation but also not welcome in any congregation in other words they are out, and better repent of their sins. Otherwise the passage in Mat 18 has no meaning. It is a useless passage that wouldn’t serve anyone.
” Is your Jesus also better than everyone elses Jesus?”
Funny you should mention that. There was a post not long ago about the Catholic Jesus not being everyone else’s Jesus.
I look at verse 20 of Matthew 18 and think to myself of all the times I’ve gathered together in His name with family and friends who are not Catholic. I truly believe He is in our midst during those moments.
What do they all have in common? Some facts mixed in with some faulty human reasoning. What did John the Baptist say under influence from the Holy Spirit? "For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones". The RCC is nothing more than a denomination and it always will be no matter how much word twisting is done. No matter how many articles trumpeting the RCC over and over are posted.
**or it has survived two thousand years allegedly as a total fraud?**
The devil has survived as total liar for a LOT longer. Just sayin.
Really Morgana
We’re dying out here in the culture war between the war on white privilege and homosexual “ marriage” and you have to stir this nonsense of Catholic chauvinism dear?
Christians of all stripes better stick together or you know what the founders said will happen to all of us each separately
“The states where the Catholic denomination is the strongest tend to be the most liberal.”
Really? Do you realize that Catholics make up 39% of the Christian population in New York and about 40% of the Christian population in Texas? The percentages are about the same. I’m not so sure you have a point that is valid.
“Well just because you think and say it doesn’t make it so Val”
Who is Val?
Protestants see the same thing and follow the same rule.
2.) History- The Roman Catholic Church is the oldest and original Christian Church, therefore, the beliefs and teachings of the Church were directly passed onto the leaders of the Catholic Church by the apostles.
Baloney. Prove it. You can't.
The Catholic Church remained the only Christian Church until the East-West Schism of 1054, which caused medieval Christianity to split and become two separate branches.
Again, baloney. You cannot prove your words.
3.) The Catholic Church gave Christians the Bible
Baloney sommore, as has been proven hereon innumerable times.
4.) The Sacraments are Biblical
They cannot be, or Yeshua is not Messiah.
5.) Sola Scriptura is not supported in the Bible- It is difficult to make a claim such as Sola Scriptura (The Bible Alone) when, in its very essence, the claim must be written within the Bible in order to be Biblical.
Nonsense. The Bible is a series of contracts and their supporting documents. There are no change orders. As such, in every court of man, the written contract is all there is. Thus, by it's very nature, the Bible requires sola-scriptura.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.