BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

https://harvestingthefruit.com/breaking-pope-takes-major-step-toward-formal-heresy/ ^

[piusv]

"I feel like saying something that may sound controversial or even heretical. But there is someone who knows that despite our differences we are one. It is he who is persecuting us. It is he that is persecuting Christians today; he who is anointing us with the blood of martyrdom, knows that Christians are disciples of Christ. That we are one, that we are brothers! He doesn't care if they are Evangelicals, Orthodox, Lutherans, Catholics or Apostolic. He doesn't care! They are Christians."

[2nd amendment mama]

Placemarker

[StormPrepper]

When was Abraham declared righteous?

I once had a Baptist preacher tell me that the reason that Abraham had two wives and God blessed him for it, was because God hadn't told Abraham that polygamy was wrong yet. It was a timing thing.

Both Moses and James are saying the same thing; Abraham was righteous because of what he did. He followed the commandments and laws of God. And he was blessed for it.

It's not a timing thing. Abraham was a righteous man because he followed the commandments of God.

"Now, as a follower of Christ do we do the things He's told us to do? You betcha. I don't know of a Christian who would say otherwise."

And turn right around and claim works are necessary to gain salvation. Then go full circle and claim that Christians follow the commandments. And then go totally off the rails and claim that the only work we have to do is to believe on Jesus.

When I point out the very plain text of the Bible that was we are judged by our works, I get back, "well we Christians aren't judged..." Wow, that's some pretty new spin because they weren't saying that 15yrs ago.

I don't need to worry because I'm not going to be judged, wow that's convenient. It's not true. But it helps them sleep at night I'm guessing.

They will say anything to convince themselves they don't have to change. No matter how delusional. I mean that sincerely and not as insult.

I've seen some pretty wacko spin, but the whole "I'm not going to be judged" thing is the cherry on top of all spin.

I point out James 2, no works no faith. And inevitably I will get "You can't earn your way into heaven". And then those same people turn around and point a finger at me and say you Mormons aren't Bibllical.

I point out James 2 again. And someone will spin it into "The only work is to believe".

I point out Matt 25...and I get crickets.

And you wonder why I say you have nothing to offer....

[StormPrepper]

Mark 8:18 was specifically written for the protestants that were to come.

Why do you say this?

[ealgeone]

Both Moses and James are saying the same thing; Abraham was righteous because of what he did. He followed the commandments and laws of God. And he was blessed for it.

It's not a timing thing. Abraham was a righteous man because he followed the commandments of God.

Re-read Genesis 15 for when Abraham was counted righteous by God and then compare to Paul's writings in Galatians.

[ealgeone]

Dude, if you're arguing from a Mormon perspective this is a whole different conversation. Mormonism and Christianity are two different belief systems. One false and one true.

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345–354). Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html#ixzz3bvgyWZ2F

[metmom]

Just when you think you heard it all.

I wonder what book of the NT the account of the disciples being baptized into Catholicism is in.

[metmom]

There were precious few commandments around for Abraham to obey BEFORE the Law was given.

Abraham couldn’t have obeyed a Law that hadn’t been given yet.

[StormPrepper]

Re-read Genesis 15 for when Abraham was counted righteous by God and then compare to Paul's writings in Galatians.

You've confused Abraham being righteous and something he did that was righteous.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Another way of saying this would be, Abraham believed what the Lord was saying and the Lord was pleased with Abraham.

The Lord was visiting Abraham and talking with him face to face, I think it's safe to say Abraham had been considered a righteous man for a very long time.

Go back to
Gen 14
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

Abraham was paying his tithing and doing everything he was commanded by the Lord to do long before your point of reference in 15.

[editor-surveyor]

.
How catholic!
.

[ealgeone]

Again, if you're arguing this from a Mormon perspective we're having an apples and Honda conversation. We're not even coming at Genesis from the same perspective.

Christianity and Mormonism have different understandings of who God and Jesus are and how one receives salvation.

Mormonism is a false religion based on Joseph Smith's false revelation.

[editor-surveyor]

.
Grace is the result of the state of one’s heart.

So are works.

The two are inseparable. That is what James was trying to convey.

[StormPrepper]

Dude, if you're arguing from a Mormon perspective this is a whole different conversation.

That's like saying to a Catholic, "Oh you're arguing from a Catholic perspective." Well duh...

Mormonism and Christianity are two different belief systems. One false and one true.

It's not Christianity, it's "Trinitarian". And "Mormonism" is your term not mine.

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a

Then we come to the final twist, when ever Trinitarians can't spin their way out of a sticky scripture situation, they inevitably misdirect the conversation to anti-Mormon non-sense. Every.Single.Time.

physical relationship between God the Father and Mary

BTW, this has never been said by any LDS leader. Go ahead and quote it and I'll expose your presumptive leap and then I'll redirect you back to James 2.

[StormPrepper]

Mormonism is a false religion based on Joseph Smith's false revelation.

Ok, here we go. And the protestants are false religions based on the disgruntled ramblings from heretics of the Catholic church.

How's that?

Are you done with your misdirection or should we continue?

[StormPrepper]

The two are inseparable. That is what James was trying to convey.

Agreed.

[CynicalBear]

Good luck standing before Christ explaining how you did everything just right and deserve to be let into heaven. I seem to remember another who thought he had done everything right and Christ wasn’t satisfied.

[piusv]

I rarely post threads, and when I do, I typically ignore the heretical posts made by the usual protestant suspects. However, they do make good points at times. I find no need to post a “Catholic Caucus”. As for the lurker you are so concerned about, no one should be making such important faith decisions based on posts written by a bunch of internet strangers. That’s just dumb.

[Elsie]

You point out?

I’ve pointed out plenty from Salt Lake City that you ignore.

[Elsie]

And turn right around and claim works are necessary to gain salvation.

You jump around so much we cannot follow your train of thought.

---

Is this first sentence yours or someone elses?

[Elsie]

He’s a catholic...

[Elsie]

Dude, if you're arguing from a Mormon perspective this is a whole different conversation.

There is no IF at all.