[StormPrepper]

When was Abraham declared righteous?

I once had a Baptist preacher tell me that the reason that Abraham had two wives and God blessed him for it, was because God hadn't told Abraham that polygamy was wrong yet. It was a timing thing.

Both Moses and James are saying the same thing; Abraham was righteous because of what he did. He followed the commandments and laws of God. And he was blessed for it.

It's not a timing thing. Abraham was a righteous man because he followed the commandments of God.

"Now, as a follower of Christ do we do the things He's told us to do? You betcha. I don't know of a Christian who would say otherwise."

And turn right around and claim works are necessary to gain salvation. Then go full circle and claim that Christians follow the commandments. And then go totally off the rails and claim that the only work we have to do is to believe on Jesus.

When I point out the very plain text of the Bible that was we are judged by our works, I get back, "well we Christians aren't judged..." Wow, that's some pretty new spin because they weren't saying that 15yrs ago.

I don't need to worry because I'm not going to be judged, wow that's convenient. It's not true. But it helps them sleep at night I'm guessing.

They will say anything to convince themselves they don't have to change. No matter how delusional. I mean that sincerely and not as insult.

I've seen some pretty wacko spin, but the whole "I'm not going to be judged" thing is the cherry on top of all spin.

I point out James 2, no works no faith. And inevitably I will get "You can't earn your way into heaven". And then those same people turn around and point a finger at me and say you Mormons aren't Bibllical.

I point out James 2 again. And someone will spin it into "The only work is to believe".

I point out Matt 25...and I get crickets.

And you wonder why I say you have nothing to offer....

[ealgeone]

Both Moses and James are saying the same thing; Abraham was righteous because of what he did. He followed the commandments and laws of God. And he was blessed for it.

It's not a timing thing. Abraham was a righteous man because he followed the commandments of God.

Re-read Genesis 15 for when Abraham was counted righteous by God and then compare to Paul's writings in Galatians.

[ealgeone]

Dude, if you're arguing from a Mormon perspective this is a whole different conversation. Mormonism and Christianity are two different belief systems. One false and one true.

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345–354). Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html#ixzz3bvgyWZ2F

[metmom]

There were precious few commandments around for Abraham to obey BEFORE the Law was given.

Abraham couldn’t have obeyed a Law that hadn’t been given yet.

[Elsie]

You point out?

I’ve pointed out plenty from Salt Lake City that you ignore.

[Elsie]

And turn right around and claim works are necessary to gain salvation.

You jump around so much we cannot follow your train of thought.

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Is this first sentence yours or someone elses?