Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
I’m confused. What did you think I would say?
You want scripture for that little sermon? See:
IThess 4:18 (how comforting would it be to have to go through the wrath of God in order to be gathered up by Christ as His Bride?)John 14:1-3 He is preparing a place so we may be there with Him, not here with Him ... He brings us back when He sets foot on earth the Second Time
IThess 4:13-17 Gathering happens in a moment and caught up together in the clouds, not on Earth, whereas the Second Coming will happen as an unfolding of events
Rev 3:10 and IThess 5:9 we are not appointed to wrath and He will keep the Church from THE HOUR of the testing, not keep us from the testing
IThess 1:10 and Titus 2:13 The Rapture can happen at any moment, without any signs to fulfill first, whereas any event timed in the Tribulation or after has signs attached to know the thing isspecifically timed
Matthew 25:31-46 Sort out the sheep and goats, and if The Rapture is at the end of Tribulation there are no sheep to separate from the goats, and the Bible says living believers saved during the tribulation will populate the Earth in the Millenial Kingdom whereas The Church will reign with Christ embodied 'as the Angels in Heaven, neither marrying or giving in marriage
Revelation 19 And finally, The Church is pictured in Heaven already having gone through the Judgment and clothed in white, not yet returned with Christ for the Second Coming
Pax vobiscum
Amen, MHG. It’s common sense when reading God’s word that makes it so simple to understand!
kerping
Since we are saved by accepting Jesus and are then infilled with the Holy Spirit, how can anyone be saved after the ‘rapture’? After all, under dispensational pre-trib rapture theory, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are no longer here to infill those who ‘accept’ Jesus, as evangelised by the Jews so absent the Holy Spirit, how can ANY be saved?
Perhaps instead of debating with fellow Believers, and causing ill feelings, debating when and how Christ is going to return, we should focus on His last instructions to His disciples to ‘Go and make disciples of all nations.’
If He is as good as His Word, and I have no evidence to the contrary, He promises us Salvation. If we believe on Him, how history all ends should not matter if we are saved. Debating how history ends, takes time away from living the Great Commission and if we are not living that way, are we not robbing Jesus? Are we not inadvertantly doing the Evil One’s bidding by NOT focusing on the Great Commission? There are already too many things that I focus my attention on which take away from such a task.
I was thinking of the spiritual Israel taking the place of the state of Israel, I see what you mean and I agree.
:) Got it!
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16
I’m confused. What did you think I would say?
I just have not found any denomination that I completely agree with and mostly I can find something to agree with in any of them.
Could it be that speaking the particulars of The Gospel makes you uncomfortable, but doing busy work makes you forget how much you've avoided learning? There are lessons shouting at you from the parable of the sower and the seed and the good seed that came up and brought forth harvest.
I know lots of church attenders who love to get busy doing work for God, in order to avoid His Throne room. If you are called to spread the Gospel, you better know what it is or your works will be in vane.
Such an attitude as you are presenting ('don't contend for the Faith, just do good works and leave the rest to God') is precisely the note upon which Chrislam will sweep the ignorant away, for Islam teaches good works are a saving grace, and you're attitude is too close to that same pitfall. The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been here, but in the Church Age He is also indwelling believers, thus making of them The Body of Christ to be Raptured away.
We aren't preaching the Kingdom, Messianic gospel as Christ gave to Peter and the 11. We are preaching the Cross, the gospel of salvation by grace through faith, as given to Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles. We are ambassadors for Christ, preaching reconciliation between God and man, based solely on the finished work of Christ.
God Bless,
smvoice
Selah!
It’s been so dry in California, the Methodists have been sprinkling and the Baptists are using wet wash cloths.
Uh, I just re-read my post to you and...you DID take it as a great compliment, didn’t you? Because that’s how I meant it! Although for some reason, it didn’t translate well when typed out and posted...!
The weakness of covenant theology is its readiness to become a Replacement Theology, i.e., “God has replaced Israel, because of it’s disobedience and sin, with the Church.” This pernicious view is at the root of the disgusting anti-Semitism so frequently found in Church history.
Yes, the Old Testament is full of stories of the people of Israel being unfaithful to God, BUT exactly the same can be said of the history of the Church. Given that the Church has had greater revelation, I would argue the Church has been even MORE rebellious against God.
Some of the Covenants with Israel were conditional, others, unconditional. The promise of the Land was unconditional, therefore it still stands today(God does not lie nor break his promises). The Covenant theologians disagree. It is no coincidence that among protestants, the most anti-Israel, friendly with Hezbollah denomination, is the Presbyterian-USA. And sadly Pope Francis is following the same arrogant prideful “Replacement” view that led to the sordid anti-Jewish record of the Catholic Church.
No, I’m not Jewish.
Yes, I took it as a compliment and appreciate it although I do not often deserve compliments.
I often say things in trying to make a point that would sound better said in a different way but I only know a few words.
What about the churches that existed BEFORE 1,600 years ago, i.e., the Assyrian, Chaldean, Coptic, Armenian, Georgian, all of which still exist today? They are "denominations" meaning organizations of local assemblies. AS is the Rome-Centric Catholic Church.
So just as Enoch was taken out before the first wrath, so shall we.
Christ wasn't taken away prior to the Crucifixion and as I read the New Testament we're to take up our cross and follow Christ, not Enoch.
Of course, being rescued from the roof of an embassy or survival bunker by a solid gold Huey after Christ surrenders to Satan and before the real persecution begins does sell a lot more books than suffering with Christ ever will.
Well....I was a student of a guy who got his doctorate there. Nice guy, who’s name I will not mention in forum nor in message, has way different views than I.
I have personally known 5 or 6 Dallas grads. Hal Lindsey is another grad. There is one here on FR, who posts regularly.
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