laimed to have an apparation from an angel teaching them to pray in the spring of 1916. They were asked to pray repeatedly by the angel who appeared to them. This is why the Catholics were convinced that they have to pray repeatedly.Posted on 03/24/2015 8:06:07 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Just last Sunday, a local newspaper paper released an article teaching that the praying of the Holy Rosary is Bible-based. In the first two paragraphs, the writer admittedly says that there is no passage in the Bible teaching nor mentioned about the praying of Rosary.
However, in the following paragraphs, the writer justified the praying of the Rosary basing it on the repetition of historical events of some Bible characters (like Gideon as he mentioned) about Israel’s history.
I don’t know if the writer of this article did some research about the origin of rosary and how it was deeply encouraged for Roman Catholics.
Praying of Rosary was encouraged when Lucia Dos Santos and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto claimed to have an apparation from an angel teaching them to pray in the spring of 1916. They were asked to pray repeatedly by the angel who appeared to them. This is why the Catholics were convinced that they have to pray repeatedly.
The flaw however in the story was that, the angel gave two sets of completely different prayers. The angel appeared to the three children three times.
Then after a year, 1917, it was said that Our Lady of Rosary had an apparitions for 7 times. In her second apparition the Our Lady said:
“I wish you to come here the 13th of next month; that you say the Rosary every day, and that you learn to read. In succeding months I will tell you what else I want.” “I would like to ask you to bring us to Heaven“, said Lucy. “Yes, Giacinta and Francis will be among the few, but you must stay here for a long time. Jesus wants to help Himself of you to make Me known and loved. God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants to use you to establish in the world a devotion to my Immaculate Heart. I promise salvation to those who embrace it, and their souls will be loved by God as flowers placed by myself to adorn His throne.” Lucy asked: “Will I stay here alone”?, “Don’t be discouraged , I will not abandon you ever. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and through it will conduct you to God.”
Now here are the flaws of this apparition. First, the Our Lady is telling the children to teach the people to make her known and be loved. Note that the apparition was initiated not by Jesus, nor an angel, but the very person who wants to be made known. It is like, someone came to you and asked you using the name of your friend to introduce her to other people that you know.
The second flaw, Our Lady promises salvation to those who embrace this command. A completely heretical claim, and totally in contrast to what the Bible is saying. The Bible is very clear in saying that “…whosoever believes in Him (Jesus) will not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).” Only God can give salvation. This is the Biblical truth that cannot be altered, deducted nor added.
Third flaw, Our Lady claims that her immaculate heart will be our refuge and through it will conduct you to God. This is another contradiction to what the Bible is saying. “Come to me all you labor and are heavily burdened and I will give you rest (Matt.11:28)”, “I am the way the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father except through me (John 14:6)”.
The truth is, there is only one mediator between God and man, it is only Jesus Christ (Hebrews chapters 6,7,8,9, and 10)
This is the statement coming from the third apparition:
“In october I will tell you who I am, that which I want, and I will do a miracle that all can see and believe. Sacrifice yourselves for sinners, and say often this prayer, especially during any sacrifice: “O my Jesus, I offer this for love of Thee, for the conversion of poor sinners, and in reparation for all the sins commited against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.“
The flaw of the third apparition is the claiming of honor which belongs to Jesus Christ, and the idea of co-equality with Jesus. Though she did not claim co-equality, but the fact of showing that people committed sins against her proposes the idea of deity that people needs to be so sorry for not recognizing her. The Bible tells us that there are three persona where we committed sins, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And now, here comes the Mary, an addition to the Holy Trinity.
“You have seen Hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save future souls God wishes to establish in the world the devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If people do what I tell you, many souls will be saved.” Then She said:” If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not, she will scatter her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecution of the Church. The good will be martyed, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be destroyed…But in the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, Russia will be converted, and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world“. “Do you want to learn a prayer?” the vision asked, “Yes we do!” the children responded. “When you recite the Rosary, say at the end of each decade: Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Your Mercy.“
Now let’s look at this additional quotations from the third apparition. This is more like “Our Lady” centered command rather than “Jesus” centered command. Russia will be consecreted to Our Lady of Rosary than instead of Jesus. Notice the number of recitation of the Rosary. At the end of each decade (10), there is only one calling for Jesus help.
This is quoted from the last (6th) apparition
“I am the Lady of the Rosary, I desire here a chapel in my honor to be built, that people continue to recite the Rosary every day. Will the war finish. The war is going to end, and the soldiers will soon return to their homes.” Then Lucy asked: “may I ask you for cures and conversions, will you grant them?”. “Some yes, others no. It is necessary that they ask pardon for their sins, that they don’t offend God our Lord, and that he is already too much offended.” “Do you Want anything else from me?” Lucy asked. “I do not want anything more.“
The flaw of the 6th apparition is that the Lady of the Rosary is asking for a chapel in “HER” honor, and not Jesus’ nor the Father’s honor. We have to note that taking glory which supposed to be for God is a serious sin, this is idolatry.
The apparition is completely directing people in a wrong path. It is completely in contradiction with what the Bible is saying. The Bible warn us about these kinds of apparitions in Galatians 1:8 “But even though we (referring to Paul and his companions) or an angel from heaven, which should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.” This is a strong warning that we should be careful in believing apparitions especially if it gives another teachings that what the Bible already have taught us.
Just some additional observations concerning the apparition of Our Lady of Rosary. Our Lady appeared “6” times. In Hebrew culture (the Israelite culture), 6 is the imperfect number. A number usually associated with evil things. Thus, the number of the Beast in the Book of Revelations tells us that it is 666.
Another observation is the dates of the apparition. The apparition dates are significantly on the 13th of every month of that year. Even until, Roman Catholics believe that 13th is always associated with evil things like Friday the 13t h bad luck and not placing 13th floor on buildings. Not to mention all the horror movies that happens on Friday the 13th.
Now let me ask you, do you really believe that these apparitions comes from God? These apparition and commands are completely in contrast to what the Bible teaches us. They are “Our Lady of Rosary” centered rather than “God” centered. The apparitions promotes glory and honor for “Our Lady of Rosary” rather than the glory of God. And finally, even culture related things are in contradiction to the apparitions. Not to mention its lack of Apostolicity and Biblical support.
That's for sure. Multiple Gods, God procreation, Goddesses.
Curious statement considering that most, if not all Journal of Discourses writings by mormon prophets have been deemed "opinions" and dismissed as scripture by SLC.
But it's even more curious that numerous prophets, including one JS stated that this is not so.
From BY: "I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom...I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).
The Prefaces to Volumes 4 and 8 include comments from “The Publisher.” which are of a similar thought. Volume 4 says:
“It would be altogether gratuitious and uncalled-for, on our part, to write a commendatory preface to the discourses of the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles of this Church. To the Saints their words are as the words of God, their teachings fraught with heavenly wisdom, and their directions leading to salvation and eternal lives.”
The Preface of Volume 8 says:
“The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press as an additional reflector of `light that shines from Zion hill.”
“CONFERENCE ADDRESSES ARE WORD OF LORD — This Church has been continually led by the spirit of revelation. The spirit of revelation has been here in our conference. The addresses that have been delivered have been made under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and they are the word of God unto this people, binding upon them, and they will be judged by these words that we have heard. If we do not listen to these instructions and counsels and abide by the word of God as it is given to us from time to time, we shall be held to a strict accountability” (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth: Discourses and Writings of President George Q. Cannon 1:329).
I will refer to a certain meeting I attended in the town of Kirtiand in my early days. At that meeting some remarks were made that have been made here today, with regard to the living oracles and with regard to the written word of God. The same principle was presented, although not as extensively as it has been here, when a leading man in the Church got up and talked upon the subject, and said: "You have got the word of God before you here in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants; you have the written word of God, and you who give revelations should give revelations according to those books, as what is written in those books is the word of God. We should confine ourselves to them."
When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, "Brother Brigham, I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the living oracles and the written word of God." Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and laid it down before him, and he said: "There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now," said he, "when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books." That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the congregation: "Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth." [in Conference Report, October 1897, pp. 18-19)
Yes. Thank you for your instructive post.
I’ve given thought to your tagline and, at this time, agree with you.
Is this your way of asking for a second chance to confess that Mary is the mother of Immanuel ?
Dodge?
Carson City?
So, you bypass an honest response to my questions while insisting I answer your trick question about by belief regarding whether Mary is the mother of God. Repeatedly, I’ve denied to say more than “Mary is the mother of Jesus” and to ask why this matter is of such importance to you.
Yes, you have exhibited a tendency toward deviousness in the wording of your demands that someone, anyone on this thread, consent to voluntarily be ensnared by your stupid, contrived question, which you continue to modify and which I’ve repeatedly declined to answer.
It’s a shifting-sand line of questioning that produces nothing edifying to anyone here, other than yourself perhaps.
Why is this matter so important to you?
Multiple [G]ods? No.
[G]oddesses? There is only one [G]od.
Things that Mormons believe. The God of this universe has a wife and used to be a man. The planet he is from had it's own God and that God had a wife, etc etc. There are also brothers and sisters.
How many god’s do you serve?
To hear tell StormPrepper, why it's nothing more than chicken scratches made by some Mormon bumpkins ... and it's all how ya wanna "interpret" those chicken scratches:
The JoD was written in short-hand from talks and sermons by someone that heard the prophet. It was later sent off to be transcribed by someone that wasn't there. So, JoD is actually the interpretation of the short-hand by someone who never heard the prophet. A symbol in short-hand could mean what ever the interpreter thinks it means. The JoD is not considered scripture. The end result are not the words of the prophet but the words of the interpreter. Wow, you sure spent a lot of effort on that mole hill to mountain build up too...
Well, after the Journal of Discourses was published, what have Mormonism's top leaders said about these messages from Mormonism's "General Authorities?"
(1) Who authorized Watt to record the Journal of Discourses? (Brigham Young)
(2) According to Lds.org, who solicited the Mormon faithful to purchase the Journal of Discourses via subscription basis? (That's right: Brigham Young):
...Watt proposed to Brigham Young the idea of publishing these materials on a subscription basis. Such a plan would make the materials available to more Saints and allow Watt to earn a living with his work. President Brigham Young supported the plan, a letter from the First Presidency was included in the first volume encouraging Church members to cooperate in the “purchase and sale” of the journal.
Source: Lds.org
(3) Who ranks highest in the Mormon church to carry out what he assigns? (The "prophet")
(4) What did Lds "apostle" Franklin D. Richards in the JoD preface of vol. 2 reference the JoD as?
The Second Volume of the Journal of Discources needs no recommendation to make it interesting to every Saint who loves to drink of the streams that flow from the fountain of Eternal Truth.
(5) What did this First Presidency official reference the JoD as?
The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press..." (President George Q. Cannon, JoD, preface, Vol. 8)
Tell us, StormPrepper: Was Lds President George Q. Cannon lying here? Deceived? Or what?
(6) What about Lds leaders within our lifetime? What have Lds leaders said about the JoD?
Well, on March 21, 1963, the Deseret News -- owned by the Mormon Church -- ran an ad from Lds church leadership about the JoD. The ad read:
Every Latter-day Saint should take this opportunity of owning the written words of remarkable teachings from the LDS pulpit. To the clear and vigorous exposition of Latter-day Saint doctrine is added the unmistakable authority of divine inspiration."
What more can we get from Lds leaders re: the JoD? Here church leaders were sqawking that the JoD is...
..."from the LDS pulpit..."
...exposes "Latter-day Saint doctrine" clearly & vigorously...
...presented with "divine inspiration...authority" -- and there's no mistake ("unmistakable" about that)
So, e'en tho many grassroots Mormons -- and public-relations' minded Lds General Authorities -- will indicate these "Lds leaders" are mistaken re: their assessments of the JoD, note that...
...Three months after that ad appeared in the Deseret News, the assistant manager of the DesNews, Axel J. Andresen, wrote a letter about the JoD to a Mr. H.C. Combes dated June 12, 1963. In a few excerpts from that letter, Mr. Andresen said:
"...the 26 volumes of the 'JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, '...If anyone tells you that the sermons found therein are not recognized by the Church, they know not what they are talking about. I am sure that the individual is not anyone in authority -- certainly not among the General Authorities...May we also assure you that Deseret Book Company, being the only Church-owned book store, would not distribute literature on the Church, particularly anything as important as the Discourses of the Presidents and Apostles of the Church, without the approval of the Church..."
Furthermore, the Lds Church publishes MASSIVE footnoted curricula, annual priesthood and relief society devotionals, books, pamphlets, digital articles, multiple magazine publications, and if you gathered up all of them published over these past 45 years, you would have literally tens of thousands of footnotes/excerpts of them citing Lds leaders -- as quoted in the Journal of Discourses.
You see, the Lds church has no trouble rifling thru the JoD to cull extracts/quotes to feed their internal publishing machine. They know faithful Mormons generally don't see beyond who made the comment, anyway. But when it comes to the public, the Lds church is aware of hundreds to thousands of extremely contradictory and embarrassing teachings in the JoD. So, inwardly, they vociferously cite it; outwardly, they need plausible deniability about "official" sanction.
(Can you say religious hypocrisy exercised by the ranks of Lds general authorities?)
ALL: When you read this, and when you see Stormprepper's response to the JoD, it prompts me to ask SP: What have you got to be ashamed about re the JoD? Why are your previous Prophets and apostles' sermon messages to be hidden under a rock? Don't you want to trumpet your "Living Prophets?" (I thought that's your claim to being a "distinctive" church?)
As I mentioned last post: "To hear tell StormPrepper, why it's nothing more than chicken scratches made by some Mormon bumpkins ... and it's all how ya wanna "interpret" those chicken scratches:"
(That's in response to StormPrepper's comment on the JoD):
The JoD was written in short-hand from talks and sermons by someone that heard the prophet. It was later sent off to be transcribed by someone that wasn't there. So, JoD is actually the interpretation of the short-hand by someone who never heard the prophet. A symbol in short-hand could mean what ever the interpreter thinks it means. The JoD is not considered scripture. The end result are not the words of the prophet but the words of the interpreter. Wow, you sure spent a lot of effort on that mole hill to mountain build up too...
So...allow me to repeat a few graphs from my last post to set up a classic FREEPER quote:
...the Lds Church publishes MASSIVE footnoted curricula, annual priesthood and relief society devotionals, books, pamphlets, digital articles, multiple magazine publications, and if you gathered up all of them published over these past 45 years, you would have literally tens of thousands of footnotes/excerpts of them citing Lds leaders -- as quoted in the Journal of Discourses.
You see, the Lds church has no trouble rifling thru the JoD to cull extracts/quotes to feed their internal publishing machine. They know faithful Mormons generally don't see beyond who made the comment, anyway. But when it comes to the public, the Lds church is aware of hundreds to thousands of extremely contradictory and embarrassing teachings in the JoD.
No I mean like God the Grandpa, God The Uncle, God the Mother, God the Grandma etc times infinity. By the way Jesus and Satan are created and are brothers in Mormon belief.
Hey, thanks for that. I wasn’t aware of that particular slant of the god-makers... ;-)
But then, the door-knockers in these parts are usually from that cult that follows the teachings of Arius (you know - the bunch that has a little g god, a torture stake, and a vaporous resurrection) so I haven’t had the need of yet to totally investigate all the twists and turns of the sulpherous breathings of a salamander spirit..
Even there it is true that you must park your brain to be a ‘true’ believer.
There's several Lds "scriptures" and hundreds of Lds general authorities saying "gods" exist in the plural.
And, no we're not talking about false usurping gods like the god of this world (Satan).
And, no we're not talking about the "mortal" gods (Ps. 82:6-7) who die after defending the unjust/wicked (Ps. 82:2) while oppressing the poor, the weak, the needy (Ps. 82:3-4)
We are talking about what these Lds general authorities are talking about:
Supposedly TRUE multiple gods...
...who RIGHTLY receive glorification & worship.
So, StormPrepper, are you...
(a) Throwing all these Lds leaders & "scriptures" under the bus that reference multiple TRUE gods?
(b) Or is this PR stunt to sound orthodox?
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