Posted on 02/25/2015 11:50:17 AM PST by NYer
Absolutely, and He told us how that happens in His Word.
So the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit can be reversed? That would be a direct contradiction of John 14:16-17
So the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit can be reversed? That would be a direct contradiction of John 14:16-17
Yes. Do you?
Pot, meet kettle. We are descended from the Apostles... the ones who stayed... who trusted that Christ could (and did) give His Flesh to eat as He said He would.
Ok, off-topic, from a non-veteran. Maybe you guys talk like that amongst yourselves, but please know that no matter how disrespectfully the media and some jerky, misguided folks acted toward our veterans, there are those of us who hurt to see you describe yourself like that. You went in harm's way when you were called, and I, for one, wish to thank you! We pray every day for our Military, here on FR, and are grateful for your sacrifice. God bless you!
This is not a conditional statement in the Greek text at all!
Get over yourself. It does no such thing. This thread is comparing and contrasting doctrine.
something that hardly a day goes by where your OWN group of eager-beavers point out the "evils" of anyone who isn't a Roman Catholic (and even some Catholics get trashed!) and how the Roman Catholic church is "THE one true church Jesus established" and anyone else is out of luck. Do you not read the myriad threads posted by your "side"?
I do. By are large they are discussions of doctrine.
Instead, what is coming across is the inability of modern Roman Catholics to forgive something that happened five hundred years ago and to which they STILL blame people who had nothing to do with it. Forgive and you shall be forgiven.
You have some serious hangups and fixations.
Catholic and Protestant bashing isn't a thoughtful discussion of our differences. Bashing is when it turns invective (as so very often happens from the Protestant side, by the way). Just today, we were treated to an "honest discussion" on just how evil is the Catholic Church anyway? Could it be the most evil institution in the history of man? She is called the Whore of Babylon... purely by speculation. I can't tell how many times I get to read that the Church teaches nothing but pure lies. Do tell!
Rather, what makes better sense is what this thread is. I don't see where Protestants are called evil and invective is hurled their way. I see a theological discussion and argument open to all. It's a great thing when it doesn't turn to vitriol.
Would it? Which part?
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Thank you for your kind encouragement.
I think you recognize Jesus is using a parable to illustrate a point as He often did.
The whole Catholic meme about interpretation falls apart in verse 63 which they virtually ALL ignore, which is where JESUS HIMSELF explains the interpretation and that it's a metaphor.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Works are not required for salvation for two reasons. One is that works don't save. The sin debt we owe has already condemned us and no amount of works can attain forgiveness for us. Without the shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness of sins.
The other reason is that until we are saved, our righteousness is as filthy rags in God's sight. So even IF they could, they are not good enough because they have to be the perfect works of the Law as perfect as Jesus did.
Additionally, once we have the righteousness of Christ credited to out account, there's no works that we could add that would even begin to compare to those.
Jesus became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God.
We are forgiven and declared innocent judicially therefore God is free to treat us as if we had never sinned, even though both He and we know that we do.Forgiveness isn't forgiveness if it is any way compensated for.
Living a life of holiness out of gratitude for what Jesus did for us, does not change our standing before God when we are forgiven and those works do not contribute or detract from our being saved. We are saved regardless.
G2G:It’s still God who put the names in; He decides.
Based on what?
Don't tell me you believe in predestination......
So if God decides, then why work?
But you can't STAY saved any more than you can become saved.
Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
The Corporal Works of Mercy are not works to earn our salvation like coins of the realm. They are chastisements of the flesh to orient us toward God's Will. They are self-denial and sacrifice in the service of Love. It isn't that we buy our way into Heaven, it is more of a walk along the path to our journey's end.
Corporal Works of Mercy are not once mentioned in Scripture. The term appears nowhere.
All believers have authority in Christ. We are all ambassadors for Christ.
So why does there have to be a centralized church authority? For what purpose?
And just where on FR have you ever seen anyone advocate that now that we're saved we can commit any sin with impunity?
That charge is laid at the feet of Christians ONLY BY the RC's, who accuse us of believing that.
I have yet to see ONE poster advocate that. Perhaps you could point us to the post where someone has said that.
No, it doesn't. You just stop listening when you hear the answer you want... or don't listen to an answer you don't want. Either way.
In John 6:63, Christ is speaking of our fleshly limitations. We can't understand His teaching because we see with carnal eyes where He is speaking of Spiritual matters. "The" flesh (not "My Flesh") is a New Testament term often used to describe our human nature apart from God's Grace. Here, Our Lord is reiterating that no once can come to Him (understand Him) unless drawn by the Father. Those of the flesh do not understand matters of the Spirit. That is His explanation for why so many left Him. On another level very closely related to that last point, Christ said, “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail,” because He wills to eliminate any possibility of a sort of crass literalism that would reduce His Words to a cannibalistic understanding. It is a cross-understanding with the verses before which speak of His Ascension. The Ascension and the distribution of His Body and Blood in the species of bread and wine are works of the Holy Spirit--as is our belief in the testimony of Christ.
At the Last Supper, Our Lord didn't raise the flesh of the lamb and proclaim it to be Him--though He is the Lamb of God. He raised the unleavened bread. It isn't the form of the flesh that matters but the Spirit which gives life. This is the Transubstantiation that afflicts so many on the outside and yet gives life to the Church. What you think is a modern "gotcha" for our way of thinking is actually a matter of deep theological insight for the greats among the Doctors of the Church.
Neither does "Trinity". What did Adam do in the Garden when presented with the animals? He named them. That's what man does. He names things to understand them. Giving names to theological understandings doesn't change the theological reality. It simply gives us a common language for discussion.
Why were the Epistles written? For what purpose did St Paul write the Corinthians?
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