The Six Days of Creation

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/sciences/scienc4.htm ^ | Middletown Bible Church

[RaceBannon]

CHAPTER 4

The Six Days of Creation

Were they days or ages???

1. There are those who believe that the days in Genesis chapter 1 were normal 24 hour days (just as Sunday, Monday and Tuesday are normal 24 hour days).
2. There are others who believe that the days in Genesis chapter 1 were not 24 hour days, but that each day represented an age (a long period of time). They believe that each "day-age" lasted thousands or perhaps even millions of years. This is called the "day-age" theory.

WHAT DOES GOD SAY?

EXODUS 20:11—"For in ______    ___________ the LORD _____________ heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is."

Why do some people say that these 6 days were really ages?

Evolutionary scientists BELIEVE that life in its present form (including men, monkeys, giraffes, kangaroos, birds, fish, plants and all life as we know it today) is the product of an evolutionary process that has lasted about 4 BILLION YEARS (more or less, depending on the latest theories)! That is a very long time!

For the evolutionists it would be appropriate like to RE-WRITE Exodus 20:11 as follows:

"For in 4,000,000,000 years there evolved the heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is."

How many DAYS is 4,000,000,000 years? How many days are there in one year? __________ DAYS

4,000,000,000 YEARS (the time needed for evolution)

X       365 DAYS (number of days in a year)

________________________________

1,460,000,000,000 DAYS

or

1 TRILLION, 460 BILLION DAYS!!!

 

God God says in Exodus 20:11 that it took _____________  DAYS to create the world and all of its life forms.

EVOLUTIONISTS Evolutionists say in their science books that it took ___________________________ DAYS for life to evolve to its present form.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE! It is amazing and wonderful what our GREAT GOD can do in just six days! It is sad and pitiful that the god of the evolutionists (the god of chance) needs so much time to get his work done! But the evolutionists believe that if you have enough TIME, anything is possible! They believe in this simple formula:

PLENTY OF TIME + PLENTY OF CHANCE (lots of luck!) = AMAZING RESULTS (plants, fish, birds, reptiles, mammals, people, etc.)

Let’s see if this is really true:

1. Suppose you had a monkey pounding away at a typewriter at a record speed of 12 keys each second. The monkey strikes the keys in a random fashion. How long would it take the monkey to type the entire book of Genesis (all 50 chapters)? Even if the monkey typed 24 hours each day without stopping and did this for hundreds of years, do you think the monkey would ever get "lucky" and actually type all those words? Could he do it if he had 50 million years of constant typing?
2. Suppose you were to line up a series of alphabetical blocks so that they spelled your name:

R

I

C

H

A

R

D

W

I

L

L

I

A

M

S

If you were to carefully drop the blocks out of an airplane, do you think they would fall on the ground in just the right way to spell your name? If you repeated this experiment 50 times each day, do you think the blocks would ever fall in the right way and in the right order? If we depend on luck and chance, do things normally fall into order or into disorder? ____________________

3. If you were to take apart a watch and put all of its parts into a box and then shake the box for 10 billion years, do you think the parts would ever "accidentally" shake back into their proper place so that the watch would work? Are animals and plants more complex and complicated than a watch? ________

***************************************

The evolutionists admit that evolution seems impossible and that the chances against it ever happening are great, but they claim that if you have enough TIME, anything is possible:

The odds against the right molecules being in the right place at the right time (to form the first living cell) are staggering. Yet, as science measures it, so is the TIME SCALE on which nature works. Indeed, what seems an impossible occurrence at any one moment would, given untold eons (ages), become a certainty. (National Geographic Magazine, September 1976, page 390)

Time is in fact the hero of the plot. The time with which we have to deal is of the order of two billion years. What we regard as impossible on the basis of human experience is meaningless here. Given so much time, the "impossible" becomes possible, the possible probable, and the probable virtually certain. One has only to wait: time itself performs the miracles. (Scientific American "The Origin of Life," August 1954, p.48)

Evolutionists believe that "with time all things are possible!"   And the evolutionists believe that 4,000,000,00 years is enough time for all life on this planet to reach its present form, and all by chance!

GOD SAYS: "It took six days!"

EVOLUTIONISTS SAY: "It took 1,460,000,000,000 days!"

?     ë Whom will you believe?  ì   ?

1. A few people listen to God and believe that creation took place in 6 literal 24 hour days.
2. Most people listen to the evolutionists and believe that 4 BILLION years were needed for all life to evolve into its present form.
3. Some people think that they can listen to God and also listen to the evolutionists. They believe both are true. They believe that the days of Genesis 1 were not really days but long ages ("day-ages"). They believe that God made all things in 6 ages (6 long periods of time).

Let’s think about this. If each of these "AGES" were of equal length, then how long would each "day-age" be?

4,000,000,000 years
divided by 6 days
= 666,666,666 years (in each "day-age")

Each "DAY-AGE" would be more than 666 MILLION YEARS! That is a very long day!

Were the days of creation really long periods of time? Were these days really AGES?

Before we answer this, we must first realize that the word "DAY" is sometimes used to describe a long period of time. Here are some examples:

1. We are now living in the day of grace (the day of God’s longsuffering; see 2 Peter 3:8-9). Certainly the day of God’s grace and longsuffering lasts much more than 24 hours!
2. The "day of the LORD" refers to an extended time when God will directly intervene in the affairs of men (2 Peter 3:10).
3. The day of Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) is a period of time when the nation Israel will go through a time of severe difficulty and trouble. This same period of time is described in Revelation chapter 12. How many days will this "day" be (verse 6)? ___________ How many years (see verse 14)?

(TIME  =  1 YEAR)   +   (TIMES  =  2 YEARS)   +   (½TIME  =  ½YEAR)

which makes a total of ___________ years

4. We might use the word "day" in this way: "We are living in a day when men love themselves, love money and love pleasures, rather than loving God" (compare 2 Timothy 3:1-4). Has this kind of day lasted for more than 24 hours?
5. "George Washington lived in a day when there were no cars and no telephones and no airplanes!" Did Abraham and Moses and Paul also live in this same day?

From these examples we see that it is possible to use the word "day" to describe a long period of time. The word "day" can also be used to describe a 12 hour period of time: "The sky was clear and the sun was shining all day!" Most of the time, however, we use the word "day" to describe a 24 hour period (scientifically defined as the time that the earth spins once on its axis). We might say, "There are seven days in every week." Here we are obviously referring to normal 24 hour days. The important question for us to ask is this: How is the word "day" used in Genesis Chapter 1?

 

10 Reasons Why the Six Days of Creation Were Literal 24 Hour Days

1. "EVENING AND MORNING"

God has carefully defined the word "day" by the expression "evening and morning." "And the _______________________ and the ________________________ were the first ________" (Genesis 1:5 and see verses 8,13,19,23,31).

There is something that every day contains: AN EVENING AND A MORNING!! How many days are represented below?

E-M-E-M-E-M-E-M-E-M-E-M

_________ DAYS

Daniel 8:14 (according to the Hebrew text) says "Unto 2,300 evenings and mornings; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." How many days is this? _________ DAYS. See also Daniel 8:26.

Every 24 hour day has an evening and a morning. Does an AGE have an evening and a morning? _______ (a long period of time would have many, many evenings and mornings!) An age may have a beginning and an ending, but it does not have just one evening and morning!!

2. Numerical Adjustive

God also defines the word "day" by putting a NUMBER before it: "And the evening and the morning were the ______________ day" (Genesis 1:5). God tells us exactly what day it was. It was the FIRST DAY. See also Genesis 1:8,13,19,23,31 and Exodus 20:11 ("SIX days").

When a number comes before the word "day," it almost always refers to a literal 24 hour day. Compare Numbers 7:12,18,24,30,36,42,48, etc. Let us consider these examples:

1. a) We are living in the day of manned space flight. (Is this a 24 hour day?)
   b) Have you learned in history class about the first day of manned space flight in1961 when a Russian cosmonaut became the first man to leave our earth’s atmosphere?
       (Was this a 24 hour day?)
2. a) "I can remember the day when I was in the first grade." (Was this a 24 hour day?)
   b) "I can still remember the third day of first grade when the teacher told me to stand in the corner of my classroom because I was not behaving." (Was this a 24 hour day?)
3. a) GENESIS 2:4—"in the day the LORD God made the earth and the heavens (How long was this "day"? – See Exodus 20:11)
   b) GENESIS 1:31—"And the evening and the morning were the sixth day"    (Was this a 24 hour day?)

3. Day and Night

In Genesis 1:5 God has told us what happened on "the ___________   _______." What kind of a day was this first day? Was it an age? In verse 5 God has said that this first day was made up of a period of light called ________ and a period of darkness called ______________. So we know that this first day was a day-night period. DAY 1 of the CREATION WEEK was a period of 12 HOURS OF LIGHT and 12 HOURS OF DARKNESS.

DAY (LIGHT)

NIGHT (DARKNESS)

12 Hours	12 Hours
24 TOTAL HOURS = THE FIRST DAY!

 

How many days are represented above? ________

Every 24 hour day has a DAY (period of light) and a NIGHT (period of darkness). Does an AGE have a DAY and a NIGHT? _________ (An age has many, many days and nights!)

4. The Fourth Day

Genesis 1:15-19 describes the fourth day of creation. In these verses the word "day" or "days" is used 5 times. Please match the following:

_____ Verse 14–"to divide the day from the night" _____ Verse 14–"for days, and years" _____ Verse 16–"to rule the day" _____ Verse 18–"rule over the day" _____ Verse 19–"the fourth day"

A literal 12 hour day   A literal 24 hour day   An AGE (a long period of time)

5. The Seventh Day

The seventh day was a 24 hour day also (Genesis 2:1-3). On what day were Adam and Eve created (Genesis 1:26-31)? ____________________ Did God curse the earth on the seventh day, the day which He blessed (see Genesis 3:17-19 and Genesis 2:3)? ____ Did Adam and Eve live beyond the seventh day? _______ How old was Adam when he died (Genesis 5:4-5)? __________________ The seventh day was not a long age lasting thousands or millions of years. It was a 24 hour day just like the first six days.

CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

6. The Fourth Commandment

The fourth commandment is found in Exodus 20:8-11 and in these verses the word "day" or "days" is used 6 times. To see how the word "day(s)" is used in these verses, please do the matching problem found at the top of page 35:

EXODUS 20

_____ Verse 8—"sabbath day" _____ Verse 9—"six days" _____ Verse 10—"seventh day" _____ Verse 11—"six days" _____ Verse 11—"seventh day" _____ Verse 11—"sabbath day"

Literal 12 hour day(s) Literal 24 hour day(s) An age (a long period of time)

Notice in Exodus 20:11 that the number _______ is placed before the word "days" (see pages 32-33). Your friend might say to you, "I worked on a paper for school and it took me six days to finish!" Do you think your friend meant days or ages? ______ (When you are doing schoolwork, it may seem like ages but it is really only days!) How long did it take God to finish His work of creation (Exodus 20:11)? _____________________ Do you think these were 24 hour days? ________

In these verses we learn that God’s WORKING AND RESTING was to serve as a pattern for Israel’s WORKING AND RESTING. God told the children of Israel that He wanted them to work six days (Sunday through Friday) and rest on the seventh day (Saturday) because this was exactly what God did when He created the heavens and earth (Exodus 20:11).

If the days of creation were ages, then the WORK DAYS for the children of Israel must also be ages (if we are to be consistent). Can you imagine a hard working Israeli man coming home after a day’s work and collapsing in his wife’s arms, saying, "My dear wife, what a long and hard day of work I had! Today I worked 500 million years and I am really tired!! I can’t wait for the Sabbath to come so that I can rest!"

Of course, this would be ridiculous! This is what happens when a person tries to make DAYS mean AGES. It becomes silly. On the following page we will learn that DAYS (PLURAL) can never be ages.

7. Days (plural)

In Exodus 20:11 we are told that the LORD made everything in six days. The word "DAYS" is plural. When the word "day" is used in the plural (DAYS), it almost always refers to literal 24 hour days. The word "day" (singular) can be used of a period of time that is longer than 24 hours: "the day of the LORD" "The day of grace" "the day of trouble" "the day of modern science" etc. (see pages 31-32), but the moment a person speaks about DAYS (plural), he is talking about 24 hour days. Consider these examples:

1. How many days are there until your birthday?
2. It took the children of Israel 7 days to capture the city of Jericho (read Joshua chapter 6).
3. Mark 14:1–"two days."
4. Revelation 12:6 (the last half or the final 3½ years of the tribulation period).
5. Exodus 20:11—SIX DAYS.

8. The Basic Meaning of the Word "DAY"

We have already seen that the word "day" can be used to describe a 12 hour period of light (Genesis 1:5,14,16,18). The word "day" can also be used of a longer period of time (2 Peter 3:8-10; Jeremiah 30:7). But most of the time when we use the word "day" we are speaking of a 24 hour day. This is the normal and basic meaning of the word "day."

When we study the Bible we always should understand a word in its literal, normal, natural and basic meaning unless this meaning does not make sense. Here is our rule—If the basic sense makes good sense, then seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense.

Here are some examples:

1. The basic meaning of "LAMB"—a four footed animal, a young sheep.
   1. Does Isaiah 11:6 use the word according to its basic meaning? _____
   2. Does John 1:29 use the word according to its basic meaning? ______
2. The basic meaning of "DOG"—a four-legged animal often used as a pet.
   1. Does Luke 16:21 use the word according to its basic meaning? _______
   2. In Philippians 3:2 and Revelation 22:15 is this word used according to its basic meaning? _______
3. The basic meaning of "BLOOD"—the red liquid in the veins and the arteries.
   1. Does John 19:34 use the word according to its basic meaning?_______
   2. Does Matthew 26:28 use the word according to its basic meaning? _______

Note: Roman Catholics have misunderstood this verse because they wrongly understand "blood" according to its basic meaning, and thus when they take the MASS they believe that the juice of the grape becomes the actual blood of Christ. Compare John 6:54 with John 6:40 where we see that eating His flesh and drinking His blood is equivalent to believing on Him.

Should we understand the days of creation to be literal 24 hour days (this is the basic meaning of the word)? Does this make good sense or does this make nonsense? Consider these questions:

1. Can an Almighty God complete His work of creation in 6 literal days? Is anything too hard for the Lord (Genesis 18:14)?
2. Could God have done this in one literal day? In one second?
3. Why did God do it in 6 days (Exodus 20:11)?
4. Did God need millions of years to make our world the way it is?
5. Does it make good sense to say that the days of creation were ages?

The only reason some people think they need to make the six days of creation long periods of time (ages) is because they feel they need to give the "god" of the evolutionists enough time to do his work. The god of chance needs plenty of time (see page 30)! He could never have done it in six days! In fact it is doubtful that he could have done it even if he had 6 quadrillion days (6,000,000,000,000,000)!

9. What did Moses Think?

Moses was the man God used to write the book of Genesis (Luke 24:27,44). Whenever you study the Bible you must ask yourself this important question: How did the original writer (in this case Moses) and the original listeners (the children of Israel) understand what was written?

Do you think Moses understood the days of creation to be long ages of time? Would the people who lived in the time of Moses have thought of these days as normal 24 hour days? Did they have any reason to think of these days as ages?

Moses and the people of his day believed that God began His work of creation on Sunday, created man on Friday and rested on Saturday. Do you believe what Moses believed?

Darwin's Unbelief in God's Revealed Truth

What did Darwin believe about the Old Testament in general and the book of Genesis in particular?  In his autobiography Darwin wrote:  "Whilst on board the Beagle...I had gradually come, by this time, to see that the Old Testament from its manifestly false history of the world...was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindus, or the beliefs of any barbarian." 

What did  Darwin believe about Bible miracles (and certainly CREATION is the greatest Bible miracle).  In his autobiography Darwin wrote:  “By further reflecting that the clearest evidence would be [required] to make any sane man believe in the miracles by which Christianity is supported . . . that the men at that time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible by us . . . disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete."

What did the Lord Jesus teach about those who do not believe what Moses wrote?  "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me: for he wrote of Me" (John 5:46).   "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31).

10. Make Your Choice: Genesis or Evolution?

Some people believe that if you make the days of creation ages (long periods of time), then Genesis chapter 1 teaches the same as evolution. They believe that the order of events in Genesis 1 is the same order of events as given by the evolutionists. Let us see if this is really true:

1. Evolutionists say that the SUN came before the EARTH.

But God says the sun was made on DAY ______ and the earth was made on DAY _____. Therefore the earth is _______ days older than the sun! Was there LIGHT even before the sun was made? _______ On what day was this LIGHT created? DAY _____

2. Evolutionists say that life must first begin in the sea (in the ocean). They teach that after millions of years some life forms eventually moved onto the land.

But God says life in the ocean appeared on DAY _______ and life on land first appeared on DAY ______ (plant life). Thus, life on land appeared _____ DAYS before life appeared in the oceans (marine life).

3. Evolutionists say that reptiles came before birds (because they believe that birds evolved from reptiles).

But God says that birds were made on DAY ______ and land animals (which would included land reptiles) were not made until DAY ______. Birds are _____ DAY older than reptiles! Could birds have evolved from reptiles? ______ Certainly reptiles did not evolve from birds! (Not even the evolutionists would say this!). The Bible says God made the birds and God made the reptiles. Reptiles did not precede birds by hundreds of thousands of years.

"Every thinking person knows that birds were created before reptiles, because that is what God has told us in His Word." 

 

 

4. Evolutionists say that land mammals came before whales (because they believe that whales evolved from land mammals).

But God says that whales and other great monsters of the sea were created on DAY _____ and land mammals were not made until DAY _____. Which came first, the whale or the pig? _________________ Do you think the whale has evolved from pig-like animals? ________ Therefore whales are ______ DAY older than land mammals! For a land mammal to become a whale he would need to return to the water, lose his hair and grow about 50 times as big! Do you think this really happened? ______ A large elephant (the largest land mammal) weighs about 7 tons! A blue whale (the largest kind of whale) weighs about 150 tons! The whale did not evolve by chance; it was created by God!

5. Evolutionists say that plant life is impossible without insects because the pollination process (the way plants reproduce) requires insects such as bees.

But God says that insects (creeping things) were not created until DAY _____ and plant life appeared on DAY ______. This means that plant life appeared _______ DAYS before insects. Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 ages without insects? ______ Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 days without insects? _____

"I was on time! The all-wise Creator created me at just the right time–on the sixth day of the creation week! That’s when I started making honey!!"

 

6. Evolutionists say that ape-like creatures came along thousands of years before man (because they believe that man evolved from ape-like creatures).

But God says that men and apes were both created on DAY _______.

7. Evolutionists say that the sun must have been here before life could begin (because they believe life began as the sun’s rays beat down upon the primitive oceans).

But God says that life (vegetation) appeared on DAY _____ and the sun was not made until DAY ______. It is possible for life to begin without the sun but can life begin without the CREATOR? ______ Who is the source of life, the sun or the CREATOR (see Acts 17:28)? _______ Life owes its existence not to the SUN but to the SON OF GOD (see John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16).

Please indicate on which DAY of creation the following were made:

_______ Whales _______ God rested on this day _______ Fish _______ The earth _______ The stars _______ Insects (bees) _______ Land Reptiles _______ Trees _______ Flowers _______ Monkeys _______ The Sun _______ Birds _______ Elephants
	_______ Man _______ Sharks _______ Light _______ Dry Land _______ Turtles _______ Firmament                (an expanse of space) _______ Eagles

You cannot listen to both God and the evolutionists! They do not teach the same thing! If Genesis chapter 1 is true (and it is!), then evolution is false. If evolution is true, then Genesis chapter 1 is false, and the Bible is filled with errors. But the Lord Jesus said that the Word of God is ___________ (John 17:17) and we know that God’s Word is __________ from the ___________________ (Psalm 119:160). Who should you believe — the CREATOR or the evolutionists? Will you put your faith in the false god of the evolutionists who needs billions of years to do his work, or will you put your faith in an Almighty Creator who can create all things in 6 DAYS?

As you observe and study the world around you, you will discover that all the true facts of science and all the true laws of science agree perfectly with the Bible and with the book of Genesis! Do you think it is possible for BOOK 1 (God’s revelation in nature) to contradict BOOK 2 (God’s revelation in His Word)? _______ (see pages 14-21). Who wrote Book 1? __________ Who wrote Book 2? _____________ God is the Author of both! This is why both books say the same thing. And both books point to the greatness of the C________________, who is blessed forever, Amen (see Romans 1:25). Sad to say, the books that the evolutionists write often do not agree with the true facts of science and they certainly do not agree with God’s Word the Bible! CHOOSE you this day! (See Joshua 24:15.) Choose the true God of creation or the false God of the evolutionists (the God of chance)!

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The Middletown Bible Church 349 East Street Middletown, CT 06457 (860) 346-0907

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[delchiante]

Revelation is certainly all about Him..

John has an interesting style that can be seen in a few place and it focuses on what He first Hears, and then what he Sees and even though they appear to be a contraat on one level, on another level, they are the same.

Rev 1:10- Hears a trumpet but sees
Rev 1:12- sees the Son of Man

Rev 5:5- Hears of a Lion but
Rev 5:6- sees a Lamb

Rev 17:1- Hears of a woman on many waters but
Rev 17:3- sees woman on a beast

Rev 21:9- Hears of the Bride but
Rev 21:10- Sees the City New Jerusalem

Rev 7:4- Hears a number, 144,000 sealed but
Rev 7:9- Sees a great multitude uncountable..

And it is that last contrast that I think goes to your comment..
It is those great multitudes that go ‘through’ the great tribulation.. (7:14)

What he hears is one thing and what he then sees is a physical contrast but a spiritual ‘match’..
And he uses that ‘contrasting’ a few times in the book of revelation..

[CynicalBear]

The 144,000 are still alive on earth. The “great multitude that no one could count” are those who were killed during the tribulation for not taking the name or number of the beast. Who knows how many people there are that will realize after the rapture that we were right. Many of those will at that point understand that what we taught about Christ is the only way to avoid eternity in hell. It will be those untold millions that will be killed and will then be numbered among that “multitude”.

[delchiante]

So you have decided that the pattern he had of first hearing about one thing and then seeing something of an opposite or a contrast is not applicable to the 144,000 and the great ,multitude..

I known it doesn’t fit the left behind folks but how can we ignore a pattern of that kind in a book full that admits in the first verse that it uses symbols (signified)?

How does a pattern of hearing one thing but seeing it ‘symbolized’ in an opposite way not count on that one example when we can it used a few times in the exact same book?

The lion and the lamb are ‘opposites’ yet we know they mean the same person. The elder spoke to John about the Lion who can pen the book but when John ‘sees’ the vision, it is a Lamb..

The great voice, like a trumpet was heard by John and the voice of man (any man) do not sound ‘alike’ but when he turned he saw the Son of man.. same thing..

The angel speaks to John about the great harlot that sits on many waters.. when john ‘sees’ the vision and he sees a woman, not on water, but on a beast..
Same thing..

John has an angel speak to him about the bride and the wife of the Lamb, and in the vision he doesn’t see a woman, but a city, Holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Same bride

John ‘heard’ the number from the angel of the sealing of the 144,000, 12000 from every tribe of the children on Israel..
And when he actually saw it, he saw a great multitude which no man could number.
Same Israel ?

If it was the only time he ‘heard’ something and then ‘saw’ something else, we could make the jump.

We have the other examples that either have to be rejected or we have to say the only one that doesn’t apply is the one that deals with ‘literal’ numbers..

144000 and 12000 are very symbolic numbers, as every number in scripture has spiritual significance, (sign)

And those numbers were ‘heard’, not seen by john..

Kind of like he heard about a lion but he saw a lamb..

There is one number that was not ‘heard’ by john that is interesting. 1000 years..
And funny that is a number people try to make a symbolic number in revelation and make other numbers ‘literal’.

If you are right, then the left behind folks have a case.

If john’s pattern can be believed, there is no rapture before the great tribulation because that great multitude is spiritual Israel.. and they are protected through the tribulation while the other ‘seas’ of people and dry grass and trees are dealt with..

I read revelation very literal and then saw those seas and grass and tress can be used in scripture not just literal, but symbolic.

Green grass and trees- faithful to God
Dry grass and trees - not faithful to God.
Places like Luke 23:31 has that sort of symbolism. Ezekiel 20:45-48 has those types of symbols..

Hail, fire are signs and symbols for His judgment

The earth, trees, grass symbols of His people as well as literal ‘things’..

Maybe revelation tells a story from resurrection to His coming that is told too literally in religious circles and not spiritually enough.

People with a ‘literal’ view may see something like the trumpets as pretty harsh but in the spiritual sense, they are wake up calls to those who wander from being faithful to God. A journey we all
take. A history lesson through to the end of time that hadnt happened in our ‘time’ yet.
A story of the church and the ‘church age’ when so many saythe church has nothing to do with revelation..

It is why there are lots of people with lots of different opinions..

The 1st trumpet ‘literal’ is a scary scene but symbolically it means 1/3 of His people (trees, green grass) was ‘burnt up’ and became dry and no longer worth anything to Him and wandered away.. He caused this but it really is due to their rejection of His Son.

Even something literal like the trumpets can seem to have a ‘symbolic’ meaning in light of His Gospel and not a dead end but a turn off to come back to Him.

The battle of amageddom is symbolic of a battle every person has to face in their life..

Reading revelation with a focus on the spiritual can change the entire tone and tenor of things like those trumpets and it reads as a very ‘his lovingkindness endures forever’ hopeful book.

Almost like they could be wake up calls all along a person’s journey..a bugle call..
Warnings of what lies ahead, spiritually in terms of blessings and curses.

But each person’s journey is different..
And people read revelation differently..

[CynicalBear]

Without understanding Old Testament prophesy it will all be “symbolic” per whatever pre conceived notions one has. Especially Daniels prophesies of 490 years of which there are seven left. The 144,000 are literally 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel who will be protected during the last 3 1/2 years of the seven year tribulation.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I’ll just enjoy the popcorn while watching you and e-s.

[HiTech RedNeck]

One curious conversation topic is how lists of the tribes vary slightly from source to source, none of the sources being self conscious about it.

[delchiante]

People can see Daniel differently..

Israel had their seven.. personal plea from the Messiah that started in 27 AD.. He was cut off and did away with the sacrifices 3,5 years in when He became sin, 31 AD.
His message continued to Israel for another 3.5 years after His resurrection and that seven years closed with the stoning death of Stephen in 34 AD at the hands of the Sanhedrin..

A personal plea rejected..Israel lost out and the Gentiles began to be grafted in..
And Rome can as the desolator and leveled jerusalem..

Rome is and will continue to be the desolator

And the first reformers werent wrong in calling the papacy the seat of antichrist.

There was a decree that happened in 457 BC to rebuild temple.
69” sevens’ would be 483 years
That would bring one to 27AD.

That is when He began His ministry.
7 years would end in 34 AD and that was when the message of the gospel started to go out to the Gentiles and the rest of the world after the stoning of Stephen by the Sanhedrin and the scattering of the disciples from Jerusalem..

That shows a literal fulfillment of the 490 years, including the last 7 which was a personal, physical plea to repent.

Which they rejected.. and then at some point, wrath will be poured out on the desolator (Rome)
We know that will come.

Rome and the papacy and the pope called the desolator, seat of the antichrist and antichrist have biblical foundations.
And it also makes having a rebuilt temple in jeruslalem not a need.
They can do abominations just by speaking from the human body, which is the temple of the Holy Spirit given to us by God.

[CynicalBear]

>>One curious conversation topic is how lists of the tribes vary slightly from source to source, none of the sources being self conscious about it.<<

I'm not sure what you mean by "from source to source". The only source that should be considered is scripture. The twelve tribes are clearly identified in scripture.

[CynicalBear]

There is so much error in your post I couldn’t possibly address them all in one post. Jesus death on the cross was when He was “cut off”. The apostles preached to the lost tribes of Israel well beyond the death of Stephen. The temple that is to built is much different in dimensions than the one destroyed in 70AD. Rome is not the desolator. The 483 years ended when Christ was crucified. And Revelation was written in 96AD and was prophesy. And I won’t discuss this any further with you.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Various passages... you’ll see discrepancies (huh? discrepancies in scripture... well yes they are, which is a rude surprise to those who think they are dealing with a wooden book).

[CynicalBear]

>>huh? discrepancies in scripture... well yes they are,<<

Please illustrate and show one.

[delchiante]

You don’t accept the premise that Rome’s jesus is the counterfeit/false/anti/in place of/instead of/substitute Christ..

I don’t accept the premise Rome represents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His Beloved Son.
You and I wont see scripture the same because you and I don’t see Rome’s Jesus the same.
I see him as a roman counterfeit.

And I don’t know if Christendom has more than one ‘Jesus’ to choose from.

The world starts with Rome’s Jesus because the world starts with the pope’s calendar and not the protestant calendar.
And Daniel has something to say about that.. so does revelation but you and I differ on lots of prophecy..

To each their own..

[CynicalBear]

>>You don’t accept the premise that Rome’s jesus is the counterfeit/false/anti/in place of/instead of/substitute Christ..<<

Do you not pay attention at all? That statement indicates to me that you are so disconnected from what I have been posting and have absolutely no idea what I believe. It would therefore be a total waste of my time to consider conversation with you further.

[delchiante]

Your disconnect is with how Rome plays a part today in places like revelation 13 instead of after a rapture.

Those commandments of His that deal with worship are being broken in revelation 13 today. In christian churches, Jewish synagogues, Muslim mosques, etc..

And far as I can see, nobody has left in a blink..

And it is true I have not seen where youhave told catholics and protestants their faith is in satan’s counterfeit. I will look closer going forward though.. thanks for the heads up..

[carlos277]

I think you and I can agree on that. ☺ http://www.howmanydays.net/how-many-days-in-a-year/

[Flaming Conservative]

I’ve always believed it was days, but the Bible actually does not say whether or not there was a time lapse between the first one or two sentences, and the rest of them. After all, there would need to be a cooling off period, whether he created it in one day or not. It seems logical that the earth was created first, then cooled off, before anything else happened. We do know that carbon dating is false. Mt. St. Helen, proved that. It’s one of those questions I’ll ask the LORD when I get to Heaven.
I personally, have seen a person’s short leg grow out to its normal length, instantly, right in front of my eyes. It didn’t get longer by the person stretching his leg out, or anything like that. A blurring occurred as the leg grew out. I was close enough to see that. God can do anything he wants, any way He wants to, or else He wouldn’t be God.

[Flaming Conservative]

I would have to disagree with you, that the OT is unnecessary. It is filled with prophecy about Jesus and the end times. It is the Word of God. That alone gives it its worth. Jesus, as well as the authors of the New Testament, quoted the OT. Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” He also said, “ Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word (my emphasis), that proceeds from the mouth of God.” The Apostle Paul said, “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Apostles only had the acts and words of Jesus, and the OT from which to preach and study. One main reason they believed in Jesus, was from their knowledge of OT scriptures. When Nathaniel asked, “Can any good thing come from Nazareth?”, the ‘good thing’ to which he was referring, was the Messiah, and the reason he posed the question, is because the OT said the Messiah comes from Bethlehem. Paul and the other authors of the NT, based their teachings not only by the words of Jesus, but by the scriptures they were taught from their youth.