Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[terycarl]

I was on a history site and it said the opposite of what you say. I will believe it over anythng y’all say. Do your own research. I was not even doing religious research when I found links on my genealogy sites. I went back that far on his ancestors and learned a lot about that era. It was fascinating to learn what his ancestors went through.

the discussion was concerning Catholics keeping the bible from the common folk...I merely stated that before the printing press in the 1500's...Bibles were out of the reach of virtually everyone because of their scarcity. I don't know how far back you traced your geneology, but if you had literate ancestors before the press was invented they were the exception to the rule....virtually no one could read......no books to read.

[ealgeone]

The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that:

"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."

At a way to spread the word! What is the rcc afraid of? Loss of control? Ya'll sound and act like the Pharisees!

[MamaB]

That reads like what I found. The site even had pictures of people with Bibles being burned at the stake. I will never forget those pictures. I remember wondering why/what were they so afraid of. It seemed to me they would want everyone to have a Bible. I was thinking in today’s thoughts not those of way back then. But the more I read on this site, the more I understand why. They wanted complete control of everyone. I learned so much doing genealogy research like during the plague period. Whole towns died and there were no people left to bury the dead.

[terycarl]

So, y’all think the only “right” church is catholic?

for the first 1,600 years of Christianity there was only one Christian church...the Catholic church. It was right then and it is right now. The various Protestant denominations came along about 1'60 years pater and they are either wrong or at least incomplete.....mostly incomplete. You cannot become a Christian 1600 years after the fact and decide to change the Bible, eliminate Sacraments, deny truths, reinterpret Scripture, change or eliminate practices....etc. Can't possibly work that way or else you could do it again right now.....Don't agree with something, just change it....kind of like they did it then.....

[MamaB]

Where is the book, chapter and verse which says everyone has to be catholic to be saved? Why won’t you answer the question? I noticed others have asked this or similar questions but they never get answered either. Is it because y’all can not?

[boatbums]

Whatever you say....there was only one church there at the time, the Catholic church...you may not like it, but that changes nothing. He promised, as you may recall, that the gates of Hell would never prevail against her.....and they haven't.....despite the efforts of some to assist Satan in his endeavors.....won't work!!

What won't work is the flimsy retro-history scam some modern day Roman Catholics like to attempt to in order to trick people into thinking they have the right to copyright the Christian church. The ONE church Jesus established is the one church that always did and always will exist - the TRUE body of Christ, His bride. It ISN'T the Roman Catholic one - though there may be a few who are genuinely Christ's in spite of Rome's efforts to corrupt the gospel with a works-based justification that IS in league with satan. This is why the gates of hell can never KEEP OUT the gospel of grace nor KEEP IN the souls that are called out to saving faith in Jesus Christ. The true gospel will always prevail. Don't you grow weary of promoting what is so easily disproven?

[Springfield Reformer]

for the first 1,600 years of Christianity there was only one Christian church...the Catholic church.

Not factually true.  No pope, no Catholic Church.  And for the first 160 years or so, there was no single bishop in charge, either in Rome or anywhere else.  Just a bunch of house churches in a loose network.  Those are the facts.  The lists of popes can't be verified.

Here's what it's like.  Just for fun, let's say some guy from who knows where comes up to you and says he or one of his predecessors has been in charge of all the churches in Chicago for the last 100 years. He has a list of predecessors he remembers, so he's sure he's right.  So you go to Chicago, and you ask around, you go read inscriptions in cemeteries,  you look at the membership lists and records of the churches, you look at copies of letters thought to be circulating during the period, and you find that if you go back fifty years, there has in fact been been him or one of his forerunners running nearly all the churches in Chicago.  But try going back to 75 or 90 years ago, and suddenly you get nothing.  No newspaper articles, no headstones, no member lists, no nothing.  Just a bunch of independent house churches that all taught basically the same material from the same book. So however good the chap's intentions, he's flat out wrong, and his list is wrong.  No single person was in charge in the earliest years.

That is exactly the circumstances in Rome for approximately the first two centuries.  No one but God was in charge of all the churches.  

So you can believe whatever you like, but if you are going to make a sweeping historical claim such as you have, it's not unreasonable for us to expect you to back it up with convincing historical evidence. I don't think you can.

Peace,

SR

[Mark17]

Welcome to the spiritual thread AG. By all means, continue.

😄

[boatbums]

the discussion was concerning Catholics keeping the bible from the common folk...I merely stated that before the printing press in the 1500's...Bibles were out of the reach of virtually everyone because of their scarcity. I don't know how far back you traced your geneology, but if you had literate ancestors before the press was invented they were the exception to the rule....virtually no one could read......no books to read.

So, all those VAST ancient libraries of Alexandria, Timgad, Anatolia, Egypt, Greece, India, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Italy, Syria and others held what? A bunch of pretty pictures? That there were hundreds of thousands of writings going back long before the Christian era testifies that a lack of a printing press did not stand in the way of ancient peoples recording their histories, philosophies, religion, etc. nor of the ability of those to actually READ and write those documents. There are THOUSANDS of manuscripts of the Bible so it must not have been that expensive for people to have them to read, study and meditate on. Every Jewish synagogue had scrolls that they used for worship and teaching. What did you think the "scribes" did? Scribble?

I know that I've provided these facts to you several times before so I wonder how it is that you can come back and assert such an obviously false statement as if you never heard any different. What's the deal? You don't believe what I've shown you? If that's the case, then prove me wrong. Prove the historical evidence is wrong and you are right. If you can't, then you ought to reconsider making the same arguments when you ought to know they are false.

[boatbums]

The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion." At a way to spread the word! What is the rcc afraid of? Loss of control? Ya'll sound and act like the Pharisees!

Who knows how many Bible manuscript copies we would REALLY have had the Roman Catholics not used so many for kindling when burning Christians at the stake?

I read that Islam boasts of only having one version of the Quran. They fail to mention it was because they made sure to confiscate and destroy every other copy than the "approved" one. Wonder where they got THAT idea???

[MamaB]

Some people do not care to learn the truth. I just do not understand. I learned when I first started doing genealogy research, I had to do further research when I found parents being born after a child. When I do not understand something, I know how to type in words on the puter and many sites will pop up. Why can’t others do the same? With everything we have at our fingertips, we have no excuse to say things that have been proven wrong. It seems that so called tradition is more important than the truth.

[boatbums]

There are some to whom it is more important to present an unmovable front protecting their religion from criticism than it is to maintain their own credibility based on facts. It is the proverbial head in the sand position or the three monkeys who hear, see or speak no evil about their church. The church is who they worship more than the Savior.

[Mark17]

LOL, here we go again. Hey guys, TC thinks it was brilliant to ask MamaB if I made the right decision, about leaving a dead works religion, for the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, and trade Hell for Heaven. What do you guys think? Heaven or Hell, turn or burn. Right or wrong? Actually, when I ask a question like that, I already know the answer to it. If this isn't a 2 Tim 4:3and 4 moment, I don't know what is. Speaking of 2 Tim 4, all of us true Christians, and we know who we are, need to fight the good fight, finish the course, keep the faith. Henceforth, there is laid up for us a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge will give to us at that day, and not to us only, but to all who love his appearing. I know y'all love His appearing, right MamaB? 😄 By all means, keep up good fight, keep the faith and keep preaching against errors. There are so many of them out there. 😄😃😀😊☺️

[Mark17]

At a way to spread the word! What is the rcc afraid of? Loss of control?

Affirmative sir. Loss of control. I left the RCC so long ago, I just do not remember if the priests told us we could not read the Bible. Now, maybe we Americans are different. If someone tells me I can't read the Bible, I would be so rebellious, that the first thing I would do, is go read a Bible. How about you?

[Mark17]

Of course. Jesus is the answer. The only answer.

Yeah MamaB. You go girl 😄 keep preaching the truth. Salvation is in a relationship with Jesus, not in some religion out there. Always tell the truth, as I know you do 😄😃😃😊

[Elsie]

YOU KNOW THE REST!!

Yes; I know the 'rest' of your false Mary; untier of knots.

[Elsie]

...I don't have enough guts to denounce thousands of years of Christian Catholic teachings and go off on my own trying to reinvent find TRUE Christianity...

Fixed.

[Elsie]

Whatever you say....there was only one church there at the time, the Catholic church...you may not like it, but that changes nothing.

Which LOST 7 of it's early churches in ASIA because of FALSE teachings!

---

People are SAPs for following Rome!

[Elsie]

What percentage of CATHOLICS VOTED for OBAMA; anyway??? too damned many.....but nowhere near the number of protestants.

You SWITCHED from PERCENTAGE to NUMBER.

Why??

[Elsie]

Because he's the president

 

Oh???

 

Then why a CAMPAIGN picture??

 

 https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+progress&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=zAa1VJrSNYuHyQTA_4HYAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=616

 

Instead of an OFFICIAL picture?

 

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/President_Barack_Obama.jpg/640px-President_Barack_Obama.jpg