Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[boatbums]

You were NEVER taught in the Catholic church that it was anyone except Christ who ever forgave a sin. Christ instituted the Sacrament of Penance or reconciliation when He empowered the Apostles saying "whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven, whose sins you shall retain, they are retained....He merely set up a procedure where a Catholic (one who believes in EVERY WORD THAT CHRIST UTTERED) has a process whereby he/she confesses to God, through a priest (as He directed)...receives absolution as well as advice and direction and counseling.....that's what priests are trained to do.

It is not true that Christ "set up a procedure" of confession to a priest for forgiveness of sin. From http://www.justforcatholics.org/a23.htm, we learn:

Confession to a priest is not a biblical practice; it is not even a custom of the early church.

Our Lord taught us to confess our sins directly to God the Father. He told us to pray, "Our Father in heaven...forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us." Reading the New Testament we do not find a single instance of the apostles hearing private confession; nor do we find the disciples confessing to a priest.

There was no auricular confession to a priest in the early church either. Augustine gives us a snapshot of the church in the 4th and 5th century. In his Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed, Augustine writes:

“When ye have been baptized, hold fast a good life in the commandments of God, that ye may guard your Baptism even unto the end. I do not tell you that ye will live here without sin; but they are venial, without which this life is not. For the sake of all sins was Baptism provided; for the sake of light sins, without which we cannot be, was prayer provided. What hath the Prayer? "Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors." Once for all we have washing in Baptism, every day we have washing in prayer. Only, do not commit those things for which ye must needs be separated from Christ's body: which be far from you! For those whom ye have seen doing penance, have committed heinous things, either adulteries or some enormous crimes: for these they do penance. Because if theirs had been light sins, to blot out these daily prayer would suffice.”

How did Christians deal with sin at that time? They dealt severely with those who committed grievous sins, casting them out of the church. A period of "penance" was required before the repentant sinner was re-admitted. But what about the daily sins that all Christians commit? Did they confess them to a priest? No, they confessed directly to God in prayer, asking the Father for forgiveness. Prayer was considered sufficient for daily cleaning.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church admits that private confession first came on the scene in the seventh century:

“Over the centuries the concrete form in which the Church has exercised this power received from the Lord has varied considerably. During the first centuries the reconciliation of Christians who had committed particularly grave sins after their Baptism (for example, idolatry, murder, or adultery) was tied to a very rigorous discipline, according to which penitents had to do public penance for their sins, often for years, before receiving reconciliation. To this ‘order of penitents’ (which concerned only certain grave sins), one was only rarely admitted and in certain regions only once in a lifetime. During the seventh century Irish missionaries, inspired by the Eastern monastic tradition, took to continental Europe the ‘private’ practice of penance, which does not require public and prolonged completion of penitential works before reconciliation with the Church. From that time on, the sacrament has been performed in secret between penitent and priest. This new practice envisioned the possibility of repetition and so opened the way to a regular frequenting of this sacrament. It allowed the forgiveness of grave sins and venial sins to be integrated into one sacramental celebration. In its main lines this is the form of penance that the Church has practiced down to our day” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1447).

So, private confession was introduced a full seven centuries after Christ and His apostles. Ironically the Roman Church curses us if we dare assert the plain historical fact that secret confession to a priest was not observed from the beginning:

“If anyone denies that the sacramental confession was instituted, and is necessary for salvation, by divine Law; or says that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Catholic Church has always observed from the beginning and still observes, is at variance with the institution and command of Christ and is a human invention, anathema sit” (Council of Trent, Session 14, Canon 6).

Friend, I urge you to disregard Rome’s vain threats; you cannot deny the truth. If you want to follow the teaching of the Bible, and the practice of the early church, stop once and for all going to private confession to a priest. Pray to God. He knows your heart and He hears your prayers. He will certainly forgive you if you repent and believe in His Son, Jesus Christ.

[boatbums]

ABSOLUTELY NOT...nor does any other Catholic....on the other hand, we do not subscribe to sola scriptura which you do and which teaches EXACTLY that....see the difference....sheesh

Better go back and read the post that started this, then, because that WAS what a Catholic said. Furthermore, this isn't "church", it's an Internet website that has threads where people can discuss various topics. See the difference???

[boatbums]

That is a stupid proposition.

[Mark17]

For your sons, as I mentioned before, the two books written by Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, and More Evidence That Demands a Verdict. Also, you can Google the Christian Research Institute, formerly of San Juan Capistrano, CA, which is a great organization for apologetics. Just e mail them with the info you want, and they will e mail you back with whatever you want. Maybe your sons will pay attention.

[Mark17]

He will certainly forgive you if you repent and believe in His Son, Jesus Christ.

Hey Boat, here is something I see. When we are dealing with some people, sometimes we need to completely define everything we say. Example: When dealing with Mormons, for instance, they are guilty of "cult speak," meaning almost everything you say must be defined. When you say Jesus Christ, you know exactly who you a talking about, the spotless, sinless only begotten son of God. When a Mormon says Jesus Christ, it conjures up in his mind a whole different concept in his mind, not at all the Jesus of the Bible, but the Jesus of Mormonism, which is a Jesus who does not exist. Same with other words like "faith," "repent,""confession."

Make sense?

[mitch5501]

"Hey Boat"

Oi cheekyboy,around here we say Mrs B...oh nevermind.

[Mark17]

Oi cheekyboy

You must have been to the Philippines. That is what they say here. You are the cheeky girls, you are the cheeky girls, we are the cheeky boys, we are the cheeky boys. Or chickboy, igiling mo. I don't know what it means, but it comes from a music video, calling agent X 44. I laughed myself silly when I saw it.

[mitch5501]

"calling agent X 44"

Sounds hugh.I'll definitely keep my beeber stuned for that one!

[Mark17]

Well, it is 7 PM here, I think those on the east coast of the US are just now waking up. Don’t let the thread die.

[mitch5501]

It's around 930pm here so a certain Elsie will soon be about his nightly (here anyway) bombing run.

A FRiend and I affectionately call him 9 o'clock Charlie.

8-)

[Elsie]

I simply repeat citing the text, which says what it says.

 

 

 

 

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Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

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John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

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1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

---

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

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[Elsie]

... which says what it says.

You vipers!

[Elsie]

...As she walked by faith and God sent angels to protect and defend her...

Dang!!!

Yet ANOTHER thing I've missed reading in the Book!

[Elsie]

A pearl of great price.

You've just gained points with Normandy and teppe!

[Mark17]

It's around 930pm

I see, two hours difference between us. Does Australia have more than one time zone? US has 4. Some of the Christian Freepers are probably stirring by now. Rise and shine people. The Lord is waiting for you on FR.

:-)

[Elsie]

There are good arguments on both sides.

AMEN!

But, I suspect MOST of us here will be PRE-Trib: dead and gone before the Final Scenes play out...

[Elsie]

Attention!

Can I have a show of hands of our FR CAtholics please?

Which of you accept the following as true...

“If anyone denies that the sacramental confession was instituted, and is necessary for salvation, by divine Law; or says that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Catholic Church has always observed from the beginning and still observes, is at variance with the institution and command of Christ and is a human invention, anathema sit” (Council of Trent, Session 14, Canon 6).

[Elsie]

I’m LATE!!!

I’ve 5-6 inches of SNOW to contend with in a few minutes!

[Mark17]

Elsie, you are awake. It is after 8 PM here. Magandang umaga. (Good morning.) Magandang hapon (good afternoon) magandang gabi (good evening)

[Elsie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_X44