Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
The Church does not teach that works of any law play any role in salvation either.
It does not say they "kept" relics. Please read again without inserting words or additional meanings. I will help make this easy to do:"God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out."
... Please note that these were not "relics" of the Apostle Paul.
... These were "handkerchiefs or aprons" that had touched his body.
... Nowhere does it say they belonged to Paul."That is sufficient justification for the authentic Christians to do the same."
Sure, if that is your template of truth, then you will only take (not keep) "handkerchiefs and aprons" that touched the Apostle Paul to carry to and heal people immediately.No bones. No shrouds. No idols. No breast milk. No hair. No costumes. No anything else.
... You will simply take these "handkerchiefs or aprons", formerly touching the Apostle Paul and carry them to a sick person, lay them upon the sick person and see immediate healing.But that isn't the meaning of your post. Your post excuses the worst idolatry because it found one verse that could be used as a springboard to justify anything.... After that, you will not pray to them, adore them, fondle them, caress them, etc.
Like many of your posts, you have inserted both words and meanings that are not in the text. It is wrong to add to the Word of God to support the traditions of man or for any other reason.
Luke 1:28 And the messenger having come in unto her, said, 'Hail, favoured one (kecharitōmenē), the Lord is with thee;
kecharitōmenē - I favor, bestow freely on [http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm]
“So you understand now that the sub-point, as you call it, is the Eucharist and not the assembly of Christians in the Church?”
Yes, the sentence structure makes the Lord’s Supper a sub point to show the importance of treating our fellow believers in the Body correctly.
“Except it is not really a “sub-point”, — it goes on for the better part of the chapter.”
No it does not. It is a small paragraph as a Greek sentence sub-point in support of what came before - correction of mistreatment. It plays a supporting role here. That is Greek. It has a sentence and paragraph structure.
“Also, the words St. Paul uses: “discern the body of the Lord” which apparently can “condemn” one — does not match your “reflect”.”
Condemnation comes from sin. Sin in context is only the mistreatment of other believers. Paul urges us to “discern”, “judge”, etc. to see if we are in correct relationship to the Body of Christ - believers.
“Christ did not say “this bread reflects my body” did He?”
Your continued attempts all ignore the sentence and paragraph structure of the language, include eisogesis of an idea you seem to prefer - inserting it where it doesn’t fit - , and truncating the context to avoid the plain meaning of the entire unit of thought Paul presents.
No. Not God’s point in this passage.
Like this?
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Do you serve the same god as the Muslims?
Obviously not to Catholics. It's actually rather stunning.
Clearly described in scripture. Yet not one word of the last days of Mary ever recorded in any secular or religious writings. Totally ignored as inconsequential.
Well under way and being organized.
ROFL!!!
Boatbums addressed the cathecism, I will address the two councils as a comparison:
Council of Orange 529 AD:
CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). Orange Canon 6 Link
Annalex: Grace is not of works. Man is saved by grace alone.
Of course:
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Not of works, that no man may glory (Eph. 2:8-9)
But Trent says otherwise:
CANON XI.-If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favour of God; let him be anathema.
LOL I was going to predict obfuscation and/or double speak but then checked the replies.
And no one comes to Jesus but that the Father draws them. Interesting how Mary is not included in what God says. Of course Mary was evidently treated as inconsequential after Pentecost as no one even cared to keep track of her last days.
Besides, not only righteousness but perfection is required of us: "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48)
Right. They rejected Christianity, too.
The Holy Spirit leads the saints to Jesus and if we want to be saints we should seek their company. I do, and you should too if you are interested in your salvation.
And it's the righteousness of Christ that is imputed to us.
You might read the post you comment on more carefully next time. I wrote of Sola Fide and OSAS. You replied to me of Sola Scriptura.
Where?
The above is the tradition passed from Jesus Christ
Yes. Nowhere does it say that everything He passed to us was written down; in fact, John 20:30 that you cite, and John 21:25 say the opposite.
Neither of the two quotes from St. Irenaeus say that the Apostolic Tradition is entirely contained in the Scripture. The first quote says what it is, not where it is written; and the second says that one should not contradict the Scripture. Both are Catholic teachings.
There is no 'mix' in the text of saved by faith AND works.
Ephesians 2:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
The bolded portion is your focus. Understand. However, the key words are "created in Christ Jesus for good works." Also "which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." See the distinction from your other posts on the matter? The works themselves are of God from God not us. Christ is the the true Vine and the fruit of the Vine (good works) comes from the vine not the fruit itself or fruit bearer.
Thus, John 15:
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
That is becoming quite comical
και δωσω σοι τας κλεις της βασιλειας των ουρανων και ο εαν δησης επι της γης εσται δεδεμενον εν τοις ουρανοις και ο εαν λυσης επι της γης εσται λελυμενον εν τοις ουρανοις (Matthew 16:19)
αμην λεγω υμιν οσα εαν δησητε επι της γης εσται δεδεμενα εν τω ουρανω και οσα εαν λυσητε επι της γης εσται λελυμενα εν τω ουρανω (Matthew 18:18)
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