Posted on 12/12/2014 9:41:27 PM PST by NKP_Vet
A small group of men and women once set its principles of charity and temperance against the prevailing values of the age—and in so doing altered the course of civilization. Because the early Christians’ belief had a specific content of truth and morality based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, they could not simply go with the flow. Jesus was both God and man. They could not worship, or pretend to worship, a mere human being who claimed to be God because he was Caesar. And this seemed to non-Christians to be an unpardonable stubbornness and perversity.
Marriage and Family Matter
This "stubbornness" was not simply confined to matters of worship. The Christians’ family customs were an affront to their pagan neighbors. They would not practice artificial birth control or abortion (the Greeks and Romans had primitive forms of these) since they believed in both the sanctity of life and the life-giving process. Christian couples did not divorce or have sex before marriage because they believed that sexual intercourse was for marriage only, and that the unity of man and woman in marriage was sacred and indissoluble: It was a reflection of Christ’s own unity with his bride the Church (cf. Eph. 5:25). In an age when any father could command the death of his newborn child, Christians accepted all children, including those who were weak or handicapped. In the words of an early Christian testimony, probably written in the second century:
Christians . . . marry like all others, and beget children; but they do not expose their offspring. Their board they spread for all, but not their bed. They find themselves in the flesh, but do not live according to the flesh. They spend their days on earth, but hold citizenship in heaven.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.com ...
“I derive my strength from daily Mass and Communion” ~ Vince Lombardi
Sad that his “strength” wasn’t from a personal relationship with God. It’s good to attend church and it’s good to observe the ordinance of Communion, but if you get strength from activities instead of directly from God, it’s a case of the tail wagging the dog.
Been there done that. When Ignatius, who was the first to use the word "καθολικός" katholikos it meant the universality of Christians. That is the definition of katholikos.The Greek text of that letter can be found at http://www.ccel.org/l/lake/fathers/ignatius-smyrnaeans.htm. Once again the Catholic Church has corrupted the meaning of the Greek words. It's there way to mask the true meaning of scripture.
>>See what the earliest Christians believed, not what Martin Luther believed.<<
For your information it's the "earliest Christians" which we are constantly telling the Catholics they need to listen to.
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians (Christianos) first in Antioch.
Catholics like to brag about the "church fathers" and how we should somehow believe that they have the longest history. I might remind you that we find recorded already in Revelation written around 90AD that some of the assemblies had already strayed. In the comments to the church at Ephesus God says "You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate". That word means "lay conquerors". I would suggest as many do that was referring to those who were trying to impose a hierarchy over the lay people. That's exactly what the Catholic Church has been doing for thousands of years.
>>One doctrine you won't find in the early Church is Sola Scriptura. (You won't find it in the New Testament, either.)<<
First I would mention the Paul's commendation of the Bereans. Then I would suggest that you need to prove that the apostles taught the assumption of Mary as he said anyone who taught what they didn't should be considered accursed.
That plus the whole concept is built on one verse and as you showed even that verse doesn't hold up. Once again, Catholics should take a hint.
It's also in "pantheon" which was a temple to all pagan gods. It was another place where the Catholic Church disobeyed God to destroy all temples to pagan gods but they made it one of there "churches".
STA: This is semantics.
But when it comes to sola Scriptura, the fact that the term itself is not explicitly found in Scripture suddenly carries a tremendous amount of weight.
That makes the Catholic position hypocrisy.
On the last day all of us will face the JUDGE.
But what if on the last day the JUDGE asks you this question:
While you were on earth did you love my Mother?
What will your answer be?
Did He tell you that?
Himself?
Really?
Did you hear audible words?
Or maybe it’s found in the CCC and I missed it somewhere.
I don’t recall hearing that in my catechism classes.
Where in the CCC is that found?
But it is mainly the deeds of a love so noble that lead many to put a brand upon us. "See," they say, "how they love one another," for themselves are animated by mutual hatred; "how they are ready even to die for one another," for they themselves will sooner put to death.
I weep when I consider how many pagans and scoffers must have been converted by the solid Christian example found on our very own forum. How different we are from the world!
I asked a question. Why be afraid to answer that question. Go to Confession. God understands.
Heh, I actually hadn't opened the article before I posted (though maybe I can excuse myself by pointing out that this thread has proceeded as if nobody else has).
One of the sections is actually titled "See How They Love One Another"--we read that this was "the continual astonished cry of the pagans around them." Since Christians today are obviously as loving as the ancients, the pagans around us must have learned to shut their mouths.
Like Muslims, they must falsely try to make every believer into one of them, even though they definitely were not. The church of Rome is such a deformation of the NT church that it is basically invisible in Scripture.
Yes.
While you were on earth did you love the crazy things the Rome based church claimed my mother could supposedly do?
Uh, no, Jesus.
They didn't seem right to me.
Well, that would between me and God then. *IF* He asks it, I’ll give Him an answer then.
It’s none of your business because I don’t answer to YOU at the judgment.
Does the following sound Lutheran or Catholic?
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans (110 A.D.)"If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --JesusLet no man deceive himself. Both the things which are in heaven, and the glorious angels, and rulers, both visible and invisible, if they believe not in the blood of Christ, shall, in consequence, incur condemnation. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Matthew 19:12 Let not [high] place puff any one up: for that which is worth all is faith and love, to which nothing is to be preferred. But consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. They have no regard for love; no care for the widow, or the orphan, or the oppressed; of the bond, or of the free; of the hungry, or of the thirsty.
Chapter 7. Let us stand aloof from such heretics
They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
Chapter 9. Honour the bishop
Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for you are worthy. You have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. You have loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while you endure all things, you shall attain unto Him.
Luther's teaching just isn't there.
That has nothing to do with the way you posted that cherry picked phrase out of Scripture.
Deflection duly noted.
“It’s none of your business because I don’t answer to YOU at the judgment”.
You made it personal and you’ve been reported.
They must have strayed from something. What?
In the comments to the church at Ephesus God says "You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate". That word means "lay conquerors". I would suggest as many do that was referring to those who were trying to impose a hierarchy over the lay people. That's exactly what the Catholic Church has been doing for thousands of years.
That's an odd speculation, since Jesus instituted the church ("if he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector") and the office of the bishop (see Acts, "Let his office [bishoprick in the KJV] another man take.")
This is a more likely explanation of the "sin of the Nicolaitans."
Around the year 110, about the same time that John was writing the Book of Revelation, St. Ignatius said the following:
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans (110 A.D.)"If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --JesusChapter 7. Let us stand aloof from such heretics
They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. Chapter
9. Honour the bishop
Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for you are worthy. You have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. You have loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while you endure all things, you shall attain unto Him.
Sorry if you took my comments pro or con for the Roman Catholic Church. I have no great love nor angst for the institution, but do love many of the folks that attend there.
My thoughts were about the powerful!, powerful! Words of the Book. A love of the comfort, the power and joy that flows from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 building upon each so that none can be lifted out on its own without tearing the fabric of the whole.
God’s Words need no walls, only hearts to abide in. :-)
As for claims of original institute... again, you have the Word as your guide... not man :-)
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