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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
>>Do some research into the writings of the earliest Church Fathers<<

Been there done that. When Ignatius, who was the first to use the word "καθολικός" katholikos it meant the universality of Christians. That is the definition of katholikos.The Greek text of that letter can be found at http://www.ccel.org/l/lake/fathers/ignatius-smyrnaeans.htm. Once again the Catholic Church has corrupted the meaning of the Greek words. It's there way to mask the true meaning of scripture.

>>See what the earliest Christians believed, not what Martin Luther believed.<<

For your information it's the "earliest Christians" which we are constantly telling the Catholics they need to listen to.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians (Christianos) first in Antioch.

Catholics like to brag about the "church fathers" and how we should somehow believe that they have the longest history. I might remind you that we find recorded already in Revelation written around 90AD that some of the assemblies had already strayed. In the comments to the church at Ephesus God says "You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate". That word means "lay conquerors". I would suggest as many do that was referring to those who were trying to impose a hierarchy over the lay people. That's exactly what the Catholic Church has been doing for thousands of years.

>>One doctrine you won't find in the early Church is Sola Scriptura. (You won't find it in the New Testament, either.)<<

First I would mention the Paul's commendation of the Bereans. Then I would suggest that you need to prove that the apostles taught the assumption of Mary as he said anyone who taught what they didn't should be considered accursed.

22 posted on 12/13/2014 1:17:59 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
I might remind you that we find recorded already in Revelation written around 90 A.D. that some of the assemblies had already strayed.

They must have strayed from something. What?

In the comments to the church at Ephesus God says "You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate". That word means "lay conquerors". I would suggest as many do that was referring to those who were trying to impose a hierarchy over the lay people. That's exactly what the Catholic Church has been doing for thousands of years.

That's an odd speculation, since Jesus instituted the church ("if he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector") and the office of the bishop (see Acts, "Let his office [bishoprick in the KJV] another man take.")

This is a more likely explanation of the "sin of the Nicolaitans."

Around the year 110, about the same time that John was writing the Book of Revelation, St. Ignatius said the following:

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans (110 A.D.)

Chapter 7. Let us stand aloof from such heretics

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.

Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. Chapter

9. Honour the bishop

Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for you are worthy. You have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. You have loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while you endure all things, you shall attain unto Him.

"If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --Jesus
39 posted on 12/13/2014 4:22:15 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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