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Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'
Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Theology
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To: CynicalBear

If nobody debated it, that would be one reason for its absence from the NT writings.

The assumption that the NT writings were intended to be a comprehensive encylopedia of all that Jesus or the apostles or their disciples believed and did has absolutely no foundation. You will not find a single scripture scholar on the face of the earth who will stake his professional reputation on that proposition.

Jesus is not recorded as uttering a word about sodomy, for the simple reason that there was absolutely no debate about it among Jews. St. Paul writes about it, precisely because there were some among his NON-JEWISH converts who failed to recognize it as a sin.

The bodily assumption of Elijah (and a few others) actually tells in FAVOR of the assumption of Mary, since it reveals that God CAN and MIGHT assume bodily into heaven those who have served him faithfully on earth.

As I have pointed out before, the total absence of any mention in history of any body, tomb, or relics of Mary is totally uncharacteristic of the early Church. In fact, given human nature, universal belief in the Assumption is the ONLY possible explanation for the absence of any such veneration of “relics” of Mary—real or phony.


721 posted on 12/11/2014 5:52:47 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Resettozero
Many Catholics here are stuck on the belief that if a poster isn't one of the 1,2, or 3 types, they have to be Protestant.

These same ones also think the Body of Christ is only represented in the Catholic Church.

Speaking of Protestants, the first ones were, I believe, Eastern Orthodox. Aren't they the ones that split from Catholicism because they refused to submit to the Catholic pope as the leader of all Christianity? Somewhere around the 10th century.

I can't count the number of times I have said I am not a Protestant but just a Christian, and then in the next reply being told I am a Protestant.

Nothing against Protestants, but I happen to not be one.

722 posted on 12/11/2014 5:53:05 PM PST by Syncro (Benghazi-LIES/CoverupIRS-LIES/CoverupDOJ-NO Justice--Etc Marxist Treason IMPEACH!)
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To: Arthur McGowan; metmom
>>You still have not answered the two yes-or-no questions in my previous post.<<

AKA You haven't followed me down this rabbit hole. Waaaaa

723 posted on 12/11/2014 5:53:10 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

Signs of a crank.

1. Every crank has delusions about powerful human leaders. In fact, all cranks will proclaim that those powerful human leaders see themselves as gods on earth.

FR Protestant Anti-Catholics - check

2. The crank’s word, or teachings become absolute truth over shadowing the Word of God.

FR Protestant Anti-Catholics - check

3. Each crank uses misrepresentations, distortions. Most cranks today will use lies to get people to not join the Catholic Church. They also resort to extreme measures to make them stay Protestant.

FR Protestant Anti-Catholics - check

4. A crank will teach a false Protestant Gospel of sola fide in place of the Gospel of Jesus Christ alone.

FR Protestant Anti-Catholics - check

Tin foil needed - by FR Protestant Anti-Catholics who are cranks.


724 posted on 12/11/2014 5:55:02 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: Arthur McGowan
>>The bodily assumption of Elijah (and a few others) actually tells in FAVOR of the assumption of Mary, since it reveals that God CAN and MIGHT assume bodily into heaven those who have served him faithfully on earth.<<

Not one word in all of scripture about what the Catholics hold as a required belief in their faith.

God hated the concept of "queen of heaven". Take a hint.

725 posted on 12/11/2014 5:57:04 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Resettozero

“You omitted possibility number 5: None of the above.”

Nope. There is no number 5.

“Yes you did, vlad. And probably other possibilities as well.”

Nope. Not within Christianity. There are no other possibilities. This is always easy to resolve. Simply post the name of your sect. If you are not a member of any organized sect (i.e. you worship alone, in a garage with friends, etc), then all you have to do is ask yourself whether or not you believe in peculiarly Protestant doctrines invented in the sixteenth century (i.e. sola fide, sola scriptura). If the answer is yes, then you are a Protestant. It’s just that simple.


726 posted on 12/11/2014 5:58:13 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

Well, at least that leaves the Catholic Church as a cult.


727 posted on 12/11/2014 5:58:44 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

Every single “check” is a lie. The Catholic Church teaches the opposite of every one of your “signs of a cult.” The Pope is God!!! Hahahaha.

But the REAL howler is the claim that the Catholic Church uses “coercion.”

Yeah! The Catholic Church exerts such powerful, terrifying coercion over its members that the largest religious group in the United States is EX-CATHOLICS.


728 posted on 12/11/2014 5:59:18 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Resettozero

“Again, vlad, be careful how you sling around that sliver of knowledge you’ve found.”

Are you making it personal? How is this of yours for slinging: “Pray to a mod for help if you need it.” Beam, Eye. Eye, Beam.

“Not good to take His Name in vain...and you just wielded His Name as an accusation against me personally.”

Nope, I told you to pray to God to help you. If you have a problem with that, then it’s strictly yours.


729 posted on 12/11/2014 6:01:37 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: CynicalBear

So, your position is that the New Testament IS a totally comprehensive encylopedia of EVERYTHING Jesus said, did, and taught, and what the apostles said, did, and taught?


730 posted on 12/11/2014 6:01:41 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: CynicalBear

“Well, at least that leaves the Catholic Church as a cult.”

The credibility of the accusation is completely dependent upon the credibility of the accuser in that case. And there isn’t any credibility there.

Exchange of wedding rings - that’s pagan.


731 posted on 12/11/2014 6:03:47 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: CynicalBear
And it's obvious to me that Catholics will defend Mary more than they will the supremacy of Jesus.

Well, a dozen or so FR RCC regulars who post on the RF are blinded to seeing that they have done just that on thread after thread after thread.

Non-RCC Christians talk up Jesus as Christ and Lord of Heaven and earth and RCC proponents talk up the superiority of the RCC non-Scriptural beliefs that, in fact, deny and not just minimize Lord Jesus Christ as the Living Word of God and ignore what He HAS said as recorded in the four Gospels alone.

As for the innocent (or sinful) bystanders who chance upon FR threads such as this one, I have prayed for you, for us all, to have discernment of what is the true will of God towards you.

Trying in this odd FR way to win wandering souls back to our Father in Heaven through believing truly and following His (beloved only) Son Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other Way into the kingdom of God; no other Door.
732 posted on 12/11/2014 6:04:02 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero
1. Not being anti-Catholic. I have love for entrapped members of the RCC which is why I hope to show one or more FRoman Catholics reading this that they in fact were born into, or seduced into, a cult that is not Biblical. 2. Deny mocking anyone for being a Catholic in my posts to you or anyone on FR. You are in error about this as well.
  1. How is love being demonstrated ? How would Catholics here for example, feel the love ? Are Catholics being fed, given drink, clothed, visited in jail/prison ? What church, denomination, sect, or group is sponsoring or overseeing the love being shown to Catholics ?
  2. I asked you a question. Your response seems to me indicate a rebuke of the other nonCatholics that mock Catholic faith and practice, which you aver you have not done, nor will do. Is that accurate ?

733 posted on 12/11/2014 6:07:05 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: CynicalBear
>>You still have not answered the two yes-or-no questions in my previous post.<<

AKA You haven't followed me down this rabbit hole. Waaaaa

If there IS a rabbit hole, anybody can back out any time.

But a mere TWO yes-or-no questions is a "rabbit hole"?

An answer consisting of TWO WORDS is going down a "rabbit hole"?

It's just AMAZING how suddenly a person can lose all taste for dialogue! After writing thousands of words, all of sudden, writing TWO WORDS is just SO, SO EXTREMELY BURDENSOME. Oh! Oh! I can't lift my hands to the keyboard!!! They're so HEAVY!!!

734 posted on 12/11/2014 6:08:38 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

Your attempt to argue against my logic fails because you changed from *fireman* to *firemen*, singular to plural.

Mary, mother of God means that she is mother of deity.

It denies Jesus’ humanity and the incarnation and claims that Mary is the mother of divinity.


735 posted on 12/11/2014 6:10:28 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: CynicalBear
We are told to correct errors we see those who call themselves Christians promoting.

Do you agree that Catholics should correct nonCatholics ?

736 posted on 12/11/2014 6:11:44 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Arthur McGowan; CynicalBear
The bodily assumption of Elijah (and a few others) actually tells in FAVOR of the assumption of Mary, since it reveals that God CAN and MIGHT assume bodily into heaven those who have served him faithfully on earth.

And since when does *CAN* or *MIGHT* equal *DID*?

A *few* others? Only one other. You need to learn your Scripture better. There were only two men ever recorded to have been taken up without dying.

737 posted on 12/11/2014 6:12:19 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Arthur McGowan
>>Every single “check” is a lie. The Catholic Church teaches the opposite of every one of your “signs of a cult.” The Pope is God!!! Hahahaha.<<

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty" ...Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894,

"For thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth." Labbe and Cossart's "History of the Councils." Vol. XIV, col. 109

The title "Lord God the Pope" is found within a gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4, In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (Our Lord God the Pope) can be found in column 153. In a Paris edition, they are found in column 140.

I don't see that as Hahahahaha.

>>But the REAL howler is the claim that the Catholic Church uses “coercion.”<<

"For teaching faith contrary to the teaching of the Church of Rome, history records the martyrdom of more than 100 million people ." Brief Bible Readings p. 16 Harvest Time books

"On August 24, 1527, Roman Catholics in France, by prearranged plan, under Jesuit influence, murdered 70,000 Protestants within the space of two months. The Pope rejoiced when he heard the news of the successful outcome."-(Roman Catholic publication) The Western Watchman, Nov.21, 1912

Howl if you wish. History is what it is.

738 posted on 12/11/2014 6:12:39 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: af_vet_1981
Do you agree that Catholics should correct nonCatholics ?

I'm eager to see how this is answered as well.
739 posted on 12/11/2014 6:13:20 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Arthur McGowan

Oh look over there!! A shiny object!!!


740 posted on 12/11/2014 6:14:20 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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