Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
“You just lost Tery’s support!”
terycarl is not opposed to the truth. You are.
“I love the smell of elderberries in the morning!”
But does the sambucus return the compliment? Probably not.
“Only a very fearful person continues to avoid dealing with reply #352.”
Making it personal again? Oh, and there’s nothing to deal with there. As I already showed the Church knows there are multiple translations to Matthew 16 in the ECFs. None of them actually negate any teaching of the Church. The problem is not #352. It is the limited knowledge and understanding of Protestant anti-Catholics.
“I’ll stick with agreeing with the Holy Spirit in what He inspired in Scripture: *Mary, the mother of Jesus*.”
No, I think you’re keep disagreeing with the Holy Spirit in what He inspired in Scripture: “mother of my Lord”.
I kinda knew they prayed to Mary from coming across a few tv shows but never dreamed it was this bad. Why don’t they go to the source, Jesus? Mary is dead.
Well, if *Lord* in the GREEK were *theos* then you’d have a point.
But it’s not. It’s *kurios* which is *Lord*. *Theos* is translated *God*.
Not the same word.
Besides, Catholicism claims that Mary is *Theotokos* which is God bearer. She bore the CHRIST, not the Godhead.
“Well, if *Lord* in the GREEK were *theos* then you’d have a point. But it’s not. It’s *kurios* which is *Lord*. *Theos* is translated *God*.”
So now you’re saying Jesus is the Lord, but not God because Lord does not literally mean God. Again, many Protestants stand against you: “Elisabeth confessed faith already in the person of Jesus, for she noted that Mary bore the God-man (mother of my Lord).” Footnote in The Reformation Heritage KJV Study Bible.
Thanks for the quotes.
We, as Catholics, believe all that. None of that disavows what I have written. She is not as exalted as God, she is not God, not is she the object of worship. The Vatican authors were clear she can be the “subject” of worship, meaning what is discussed during the act of worship, the object of which is Christ.
All Christians have means by which they seek salvation. You can call them idolatry all you want, but it doesn’t make it so in a billion Catholic hearts.
We have a language barrier that has been in place since the Reformation. Good luck, and it’s sad. The means are different, but the object we all have is the same: the Trinity and Salvation.
How does saying that Mary bore the God-man stand against me?
I say Mary bore Jesus, not GOD, as GOD has no mother. Jesus did.
so now footnotes are acceptable teachings.....????
No, it’s really true. Protestants will all deny it, but it’s what they believe.
I call on all Protestants (you, metmom, CynicalBear, iscool, etc.) to renounce the baby-eating practices that your churches all teach.
“How does saying that Mary bore the God-man stand against me?”
Simple. There is no way to bear the God-man and not be the mother of God. I long ago asked about how many persons Jesus is. If He is ONE Person, then Mary is the mother of God because Jesus is God.
“I say Mary bore Jesus, not GOD, as GOD has no mother. Jesus did.”
When you say, “”I say Mary bore Jesus, not GOD,” you’re saying that Jesus and His divinity are two separate persons. Jesus is not two people. He is ONE. Women give birth to persons, not natures. Mary gave birth to ONE Person - Jesus, God.
“so now footnotes are acceptable teachings.....????”
To the Protestants who put together that Bible, apparently, yes. They believe in sola scriptura. You say you do, right? So, home come you don’t agree on this one way or another?
Because the enemy would have them take their focus off of Jesus and put it on the pagan concept of "queen of heaven".
I am missing some reference or background with these words. Please fill me in on total resource material.
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