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To: Elsie
"...he who believes in me will also do the works that I do;"

I assume you consider that you are a 'believer'?

Have YOU done the WORKS that Jesus has done?

I'd LOVE to taste some of YOUR wine; and talk to the folks that YOU have healed!"

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Elsie, one of the biggest problems with your response here is that you are trying to insert words and ideas into those Bible texts and quotes from Jesus Christ which are simply not there.

For example, do you see the word "all" in front of "the works that I do" in that Bible text I posted?    It is not there, Elsie, and to assume that it is, is to assume a complete falsehood.

When Jesus said "he who believes in me will also do the works that I do", he did not say "he who believes in me will also do all the works that I do".    He did say that "he who believes in me" will "do the works" though, whether you like it or not.    When Jesus said "works", Jesus meant "works", not some fuzzy, transient, ephemeral, angelic thoughts and fleeting butterfly feelings.

God sometimes performs miracles in areas involving things believers are praying for, but what other kinds of "works" did Jesus do that He says true believers in Him would also actually do?

Jesus specifies various works like that in a number of places.    A good place to start is Matthew 25:31-46:

Some "works" Jesus did which He wants those who believe in Him to also do:

Jesus did those works, and He says that real believers will also do the works He did, and that God will help those real believers do those things in some unspecified way.    (Again, do not try to add the word "all" there, or add the phrase "in an identical miraculous way", because those words would be coming strictly from Elsie, not from Jesus, and would falsify the Gospel quote.)    Stick to what Jesus actually said.

(Jesus also said believers would do even more than He did, and that also is very true, again, in a limited, human way, and Jesus promised God's help to do that in some undefined way, as needed.)    In His time on earth before His crucifixion, Jesus did all His earthly work in a limited geographical area, and His work involved limited numbers of people.    His believing followers in His Church have taken His Gospel message much farther ("to the ends of the earth"), and have helped (sometimes directly, sometimes through financial support, and in various other ways) to feed far more than 5,000 people, and to visit far more sick and imprisoned people (via better travel methods and new technologies), etc.    (A good teaching sermon on the beatitudes on the Catholic Network EWTN that gets broadcast through various technologies all around the world, is heard by far more people than the number of people who actually heard the "Sermon on the Mount" from Jesus live.)

It is always better to honestly stick to what is actually written in the Bible, and not add one's own words here and there, or change words, or delete words, in order to try to make the teachings in the Bible seem to more closely match up with one's own erroneous beliefs.

When the day of judgment comes, God is not going to care at all about whether any of us won or lost an argument on the internet, but, rather, whether we were honestly open to accepting the truths of God when they were presented to us, and did not allow puffed-up pride and egotistical arrogance (like that of Lucifer) to get in the way of our learning and accepting those truths.   (This applies to all of us.)

566 posted on 12/09/2014 8:06:04 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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To: Heart-Rest

Re:566, well written.


568 posted on 12/09/2014 8:59:35 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Heart-Rest
Elsie, one of the biggest problems with your response here is that you are trying to insert words and ideas into those Bible texts and quotes from Jesus Christ which are simply not there.

FOTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A CATHOLIC is complaining about THAT???????

Stick to what Jesus actually said.

Physician, heal thyself.

569 posted on 12/09/2014 11:24:19 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Heart-Rest; Elsie
When the day of judgment comes, God is not going to care at all about whether any of us won or lost an argument on the internet, but, rather, whether we were honestly open to accepting the truths of God when they were presented to us, and did not allow puffed-up pride and egotistical arrogance (like that of Lucifer) to get in the way of our learning and accepting those truths. (This applies to all of us.)

No. What God cares about in the judgment is whether we believed on the name of the only Son of God.

John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

570 posted on 12/09/2014 11:26:11 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Heart-Rest
Elsie, one of the biggest problems with your response here is that you are trying to insert words and ideas into those Bible texts and quotes from Jesus Christ which are simply not there.

Then it surely is evidence that your Catholics are teaching me well; don't you think?

572 posted on 12/10/2014 7:40:22 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Heart-Rest

That was a very timely and excellent post. It is always good to be reminded of what Jesus considers vitally, crucially important. As you noted, Jesus spells it out specifically in Matt. 25:

35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’

Jesus was describing some of the acts of agape love. Of course, the ultimate act of agape was Jesus giving his life for us on the cross. Interestingly, He didn’t take that opportunity to say, ‘You fools, don’t you understand what you are doing?’ Rather, He said, ‘Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.’

The Apostle Paul, too, wrote about love. It’s a fairly short chapter, 1 Corinthians 13. You can read the entire chapter and not find one instance of saying ‘You fool’ to anyone. In fact, when you read Paul’s description of love, calling people a fool to their face seems far removed from the word picture he paints.

Thanks again for your post. Here is my favorite part:

“When the day of judgment comes, God is not going to care at all about whether any of us won or lost an argument on the internet”

Amen.


573 posted on 12/10/2014 3:43:27 PM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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