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Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?
Crisis Magazine ^ | November 24, 2014 | DENNIS BONNETTE

Posted on 11/24/2014 1:07:14 PM PST by NYer

the-fall-of-man-hendrick-goltzius

Pure myth! That is today’s typical view of a literal Adam and Eve. Yet, contrary to current skepticism, a real Adam and Eve remain credible—both in terms of Catholic doctrine and sound natural science.

By calling the Genesis story a “myth,” people avoid saying it is mere “fantasy,” that is, with no foundation in reality at all. While rejecting a literal first pair of human parents for all mankind, they hope to retain some “deeper” truth about an original “sinful human condition,” a “mythic” meaning. They think that the latest findings in paleoanthropology and genetics render a literal pair of first true human parents to be “scientifically impossible.”

The prevailing assumption underlying media reports about human origins is that humanity evolved very gradually over vast periods of time as a population (a collection of interbreeding organisms), which itself originally evolved from a Homo/Pan (human/chimpanzee) common ancestor millions of years ago. Therefore, we are not seen as descendants of the biblical Adam and Eve.

This universal evolutionary perspective leads many Catholics and others to conclude that a literal Adam and Eve is “scientifically impossible” for two reasons: First, paleoanthropologists deny the sudden appearance of intelligent, self-reflective, fully-human primates, but rather view the emergence of consciousness and intelligence as taking place slowly and incrementally over long periods of time. Second, in light of recent findings in molecular biology, especially from studies based on genetic data gleaned from the Human Genome Project, it is claimed that the hominin population (the primate group from which modern man is said to have arisen) has never had a bottleneck (reduced population) of a single mating pair in the last seven or more million years: no literal Adam and Eve. Many succumb to the modernist tendency to “adjust” Church teaching to fit the latest scientific claims—thus intimidating Catholics into thinking that divinely revealed truths can be abandoned—“if need be.”

This skepticism of a literal Adam and Eve begs for four much needed corrections.

First, Church teaching about Adam and Eve has not, and cannot, change. The fact remains that a literal Adam and Eve are unchanging Catholic doctrine. Central to St. Paul’s teaching is the fact that one man, Adam, committed original sin and that through the God-man, Jesus Christ, redemption was accomplished (Romans 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15: 21-22). In paragraphs 396-406, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, speaks of Adam and Eve as a single mating pair who “committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state” (CCC, 404). “Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back toward God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle” (CCC, 405). The doctrines surrounding original sin cannot be altered “without undermining the mystery of Christ” (CCC, 389).

Today, many think that Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani generis did not definitively exclude theological polygenism. What they fail to notice, though, is that the Holy Father clearly insists that Scripture and the Magisterium affirm that original sin “proceeds from a sin truly committed by one Adam [ab uno Adamo]” and that this sin is transmitted to all true human beings through generation (para. 37). This proves that denial of a literal Adam (and his spouse, Eve) as the sole first genuinely human parents of all true human beings is not theologically tenable.

Second, rational human nature itself requires that mankind made an instant appearance on planet Earth. Paleoanthropological claims of gradual appearance of specifically human traits fail to comport with a true philosophy of human nature. Reflecting classical Christian thought, St. Thomas Aquinas demonstrates that true man is distinguished essentially from lower animals by possession of an intellectual and immortal soul, which possesses spiritual powers of understanding, judgment, and reasoning (Summa theologiae I, 75). While these qualitatively superior abilities are manifested through special forms of tool making or culture or art, they need not always be evident in the paleontological record. Sometimes true men share mere animal survival behavior and sometimes truly human behavior is lost to modern sight due to the ravages of time. What matters is that genuinely spiritual powers are either present or not, and that these alone bespeak the presence of true man. Irrational animals, including subhuman primates, are capable of complex sentient behaviors often approaching or imitating the rational activities of true man. But an animal either possesses a spiritual, intellectual soul or not. Thus at some point in time, true man suddenly appears—whether visible to modern science or not. Before that time, all subhuman behavior manifests merely material sensory abilities. The fact that positivistic scientists cannot discern the first presence of true man is hardly remarkable.

Third, a correct understanding of the scientific (inductive) method reveals that it cannot ever logically exclude the possibility of two sole founders of humanity. Natural scientific studies employ the inductive method of reasoning. Empirically observed data is employed to form testable hypotheses. Molecular biologists use computer models in an attempt to validate such hypotheses and reach conclusions about genetic conditions in early primate populations. In this process, some researchers have committed the logically invalid move of inferring from particular data to the universally negative claim that a literal Adam and Eve is impossible. Such methodology produces, at best, solely probable conclusions, based on available evidence and the assumptions used to evaluate the data. There is the inherent possibility that an unknown factor will alter the conclusion, similarly as was the unexpected discovery of black swans in Australia, when the whole world “knew” all swans were white.

Fourth, specific scientific arguments against Adam and Eve have proven not as forceful as many presently believe (Gauger 2012). For example, some have claimed that effective population size estimates for the last several million years would not permit just two true humans to have lived during that time. Still, the technical concept of average effective population size estimates should not be confused with an actual “bottleneck” (a temporarily reduced population) which may be much smaller. Effective population size estimates can vary from as high as 14,000 (Blum 2011) to as low as 2,000 (Tenesa 2007), depending on the methods used.

Such calculations rely upon many assumptions about mutation rate, recombination rate, and other factors, that are known to vary widely. All of this entails retrospective calculations about events in the far distant past, for which we have no directly verifiable data. For such reasons, some experts have concluded that effective population size cannot be determined using DNA sequence differences alone (Sjödin 2005; Hawks 2008).

Indeed, the most famous genetic study proclaimed as a “scientific objection” to Adam and Eve turned out to be based on methodological errors. An article by geneticist Francisco J. Ayala appearing in the journal, Science (1995), led many to believe that a founding population of only two individuals was impossible. Ayala based his challenge to monogenism (two sole founders of humanity) on the large number of versions (alleles) of the particular gene HLA-DRB1, which are present in the current population. Accepting the common ancestor theory, he claimed that there were thirty-two ancient lineages of the HLA-DRB1 gene prior to the Homo/Pan split (approximately seven million years ago). Over time, these “pre-split” lineages, themselves, evolved into the new additional versions present today. Because each individual carries only two versions of a gene, a single founding pair could not have passed on the thirty-two versions that Ayala claimed existed some seven million years ago—either at that time or at any time since. A bottleneck of just two true humans, Adam and Eve, was “scientifically impossible.”

However, Ayala’s claim of thirty-two ancient HLA-DRB1 lineages (prior to the Homo/Pan split) was wrong because of methodological errors. The number of lineages was subsequently adjusted by Bergström (1998) to just seven at the time of the split, with most of the genetic diversity appearing in the last 250,000 years. A still later study coming out of Bergström’s group inferred that just four such lineages existed more than five million years ago, but that a few more appeared soon thereafter (von Salomé 2007). While two mating hominins can transmit four lineages, the few additional later ones still require explanation.

These genetic studies, based on many assumptions and use of computer models, do not tell us how the origin of the human race actually took place. But, they do show (1) that methodological limitations and radical contingency are inherent in such studies, which are employed to make retroactive judgments about deeply ancient populations that can never be subject to direct observation, and (2) that present scientific claims against the possibility of a literal Adam and Eve are not definitive (Gauger 2012, 105-122).

Philosopher Kenneth W. Kemp and others have suggested that interbreeding between true humans and subhuman primates in the same biological population might account for presently observed genetic diversity (Kemp 2011). Such interbreeding is not to be confused with the marriages between true human siblings and cousins which would have occurred in the first generations following Adam and Eve, which unions were a necessary part of God’s plan for the initial propagation of mankind (Gen. 1:28).

The difficulty with any interbreeding solution (save, perhaps, in rare instances) is that it would place at the human race’s very beginning a severe impediment to its healthy growth and development. Natural law requires that marriage and procreation take place solely between a man and a woman, so that children are given proper role models for adult life. So too, even if the union between a true human and a subhuman primate were not merely transitory, but lasting, the defective parenting and role model of a parent who is not a true human being would introduce serious disorder in the proper functioning of the family and education of children. Hence, widespread interbreeding is not an acceptable solution to the problem of genetic diversity.

Moreover, given the marked reduction in the number of ancient HLA-DRB1 alleles found by the later genetic studies of Bergström and von Salomé, it may turn out that no interbreeding is needed at all, or at most, that very rare instances of it may have occurred. Such rare events might not even entail the consent of true human beings, since they could result from an attack by a subhuman male upon a non-consenting human female.

A literal Adam and Eve remains rationally, scientifically credible.

Since the same God is author both of human reason and of authentic revelation, legitimate natural science, properly conducted, will never contradict Catholic doctrine, properly understood. Catholic doctrine still maintains that a literal Adam and Eve must have existed, a primal couple who committed that personal original sin, which occasioned the need for, and the divine promise of, the coming of the Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

Editor’s note: The image above is a detail from “The Fall of Man” painted by Hendrik Goltzius in 1616.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: adam; adamandeve; creation; crevo; crevolist; eve; evolution; fazalerana; gardenofeden; genesis; hughross; originalparents; origins
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To: boatbums

Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.”


Yes exactly what I said, ;almost; Philip went out to preach the gospel, he did not hang around and preach to the other Members of the Church.

He did not sing to the quire like is taking place here on freeper.


461 posted on 11/26/2014 10:05:08 PM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: boatbums

The Pentateuch, as the first five books of the Old Testament are called, are referred to as the the books of Moses in the New Testament


Didn`t` know where but knew I had seen it or heard it.


462 posted on 11/26/2014 10:09:38 PM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: terycarl; editor-surveyor
there was noone[sic] else there to be affected by the length of the day....only God was there, and we all know that to God a day is like.................whatever period of time you care to insert.

It doesn't matter whether or not no one was actually existing yet, the point is that it was GOD who specifically used the terms evening and morning for a "day". It isn't about what a day is to God - in eternity, it doesn't exist because there won't BE a sun to rise and set. But seeing as this is the accounting of what went on when God created the heavens and the earth and every creature in it, He used a LITERAL day - earth day, 24 hours, evening and morning or morning and evening, day and night. I can't believe you are seriously arguing against Genesis' creation account. It was GOD'S telling of what happened to Moses! Don't you think He would have made it clear if He meant thousands of years???

463 posted on 11/26/2014 10:14:34 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: allendale; CatherineofAragon
Its interesting that your “rebuttals” do not disagree with the essence of Genesis. However you seem enraged that someone may accept its essence but not its literality. Well if you are truly a tolerant person, you should recognize that people have the God given ability to think and ponder everything. You should also be humble enough to consider that you may be wrong in your approach and your intransience[sic] leads good people away from God.

I'm not seeing any signs of CofA being "enraged", "intolerant" or "intransigent (that is what you meant, right?)". Nor is there a lack of "humility". Just someone arguing her point using both logic as well as Biblical examples to back it up. What do your rebuttals offer other than a denial of a literal meaning to an important issue Christians should be clear on? Are YOU humble enough to admit you could be wrong in both your approach as well as your opinion? I would think "good" people, who are sincerely looking into the topic might appreciate a strongly supported basis for an argument. So far, I haven't been convinced you have one.

464 posted on 11/26/2014 10:24:23 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: ravenwolf
Yes exactly what I said, ;almost; Philip went out to preach the gospel, he did not hang around and preach to the other Members of the Church. He did not sing to the quire like is taking place here on freeper.

Are you aware that the Apostles and disciples of Jesus went out and established churches AFTER they led a group to faith in Jesus? They didn't just do a hit and run but stuck around long enough to make sure local assemblies had strong leaders, firm in the faith and able to teach and lead their congregations in growing their faith. Read Paul's letters to Timothy. He was a young man Paul led to the lord and discipled, training him to be a leader and be able to train others in the faith. That CHOIR had to learn to sing from someone didn't they? There's more to being a Christian than the initial act of faith, receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and believing in Him. New believers start out as "babes" who can only drink the "milk of the word", but, as they grow in grace and the knowledge of Christ, they can ingest "strong meat" and get deeper into the full knowledge of all that God desires for us to know. Faith is a growing thing - it needs spiritual food - and God gifts His children with pastors, teachers and leaders to help them.

As for what I and others do on FR RF, sometimes we ARE preaching to the choir - encouraging each other and discussing theological topics. Sometimes, though, it IS a way to evangelize as we do not know who might be reading a thread at any point in time. God directs people here, I really believe that - they are "divine appointments". I've received Freepmails from more than a few. Nothing wrong with preaching to the choir, though!

465 posted on 11/26/2014 10:39:44 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
Read Paul's letters to Timothy. He was a young man Paul led to the lord and discipled, training him to be a leader and be able to train others in the faith ------------------------------------------------- Yes, and are you aware that Paul also circumcised Timothy in fear of the Jews, a grown man wow I bet that was bad. There's more to being a Christian than the initial act of faith, receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and believing in Him. >>>>>> That is right John 14 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 6 31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. Mathew 22 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.  Matthew 25 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
466 posted on 11/26/2014 11:41:08 PM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: boatbums; redleghunter; daniel1212; Zionist Conspirator; NYer; ebb tide; KC_Lion; wideawake; ...
redleghunter post #185: "For if a Christian believes Jesus performed miracles defying our physical laws how is Genesis 1-3 so hard to accept?"

boatbums post #195: "Amen! Is anything to hard for God? "

Bingo! We have a winner, and there it is: the gateway to understanding.

Genesis (the Bible) is not "all about" science, it's all about God -- how God created science, how God rules over science and how God, on occasion, over-rules science.
And that is what you must believe, regardless of what today's science may say on any particular subject.

If you can't believe God rules science, then you're not a believer, period, and little of the Bible makes sense.
But once you accept that God rules science, then all these little details we learn from science (i.e., big bang, old earth, evolution) are irrelevant to the Bible's message.

Today's science may or may not be overturned by tomorrow's discoveries, but the Bible's message cannot be overturned by anything humans say or do.

Agreed?

467 posted on 11/27/2014 2:15:19 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective..)
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To: Boogieman

Waiting to be in the flesh then.


468 posted on 11/27/2014 2:41:21 AM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: ravenwolf; Kackikat
ravenwolf: "If we take the Bible literally we can see that Adam was made after the six day creation because there was no man to till the ground even though every thing including man was already made."

Come on, pal, Genesis one & two are very short, you can read them in ten minutes -- can't you take just a little time to verify before you start spouting off nonsense?

Genesis 1 clearly, unequivocally, absolutely & positively says mankind was created on Day Six, go read it.

Genesis 2 suggests, but does not explicitly say, that God began creating mankind, "from the dust of the ground" at the end of Day Two -- go read it!
"Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up..."

Those were the Work of Day Three, and what it suggests is that God's creation of mankind did not happen "overnight", or even in one "God-day", but rather over a lengthy period of time, from the end of Day Two until Day Six.

For those concerned that Genesis 1 restricts a God-day to 24 human hours, in several places the Bible tells us that a God-day is much longer than a human day, and indeed suggests that God-time is whatever He wants it to be.

469 posted on 11/27/2014 2:52:00 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective..)
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To: terycarl
there was noone else there to be affected by the length of the day.

We know that angels sang at the Creation to the Glory of God.

We know that the Son of God was present during the Creation and later Jesus could have corrected Moses' "mistake".

No, the Word of God is correct and is for believers, for those seeking God, not for doubters.
470 posted on 11/27/2014 4:43:20 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: boatbums

Thank you for this post. Even if it were cut and pasted, I still appreciate it.


471 posted on 11/27/2014 4:54:00 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: allendale; CatherineofAragon
Its interesting that your “rebuttals” do not disagree with the essence of Genesis. However you seem enraged that someone may accept its essence but not its literality. Well if you are truly a tolerant person, you should recognize that people have the God given ability to think and ponder everything. You should also be humble enough to consider that you may be wrong in your approach and your intransience leads good people away from God.

Now THAT is a not-so-subtle arrogant response.

As one who seems to be in agreement with CofA on many points, I perceive your lackadaiscal approach to believing the accounts in Genesis as written can be carried over to Jesus Christ Himself.

Many posters on FR RF forum threads over time have demoted Our Only Savior Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God, to just a good teacher and all 'round nice guy. Are you one of those FReepers who has imagined Jesus less authoritative than He is? I hope not and suggest you strive "to err" on the side of a "literal" Word of God.
472 posted on 11/27/2014 5:08:47 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero
One little word (from a child?) will slay him. When all is said and done, many people won't believe what idiots we have been to buy any of the lies and what a puny no-longer-lovely deceiver he turns out to be.

Yeah, they'll be embarrassed:

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Their close-mindedness will cause them to follow the wrong messiah.

473 posted on 11/27/2014 5:36:07 AM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Boogieman
If you want us to accept this argument, then you’d have to apply it consistently. So, every time that the word “day” is used in the Bible, you must substitute “thousand years”. Otherwise, you are not following the first sentence, but actually claiming that God changes this principle whenever it’s convenient for your interpretation.

No, we study to know when a day is a day to us and when a day is a day to God:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

474 posted on 11/27/2014 5:39:24 AM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: boatbums
In eternity, there is no such thing as time. Time has no relation to God; it does not exist for him. So, for God - and for us, as well, in heaven, one day is no different than a thousand years, a hundred thousand years or a million years. But, when God DOES speak of a day in earth time and specifically says "evening and morning", then He IS talking about a literal, 24-hour day - like in Genesis.

Or the evening and morning were the first part of the day and the second part of the "day". Regardless, "generations" of man does not occur in a 24 hour day.

475 posted on 11/27/2014 5:45:38 AM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Elsie
The Cain side were in the image of GOD. The Seth side were in Adam's image.

What was the difference?

476 posted on 11/27/2014 5:48:20 AM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Elsie
Whatever THAT is supposed to mean. Just how 'perfect' was he? "Be ye therefore perfect..."

Umm, it's a verse in the bible:

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

You've never seen this verse? What does it mean to you?

477 posted on 11/27/2014 5:51:07 AM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Elsie
Like comets?

No, but who knows. Some American Indian tribes have legends of having to live underground when the heavens got too close to the earth. Was this Noah's flood, and was this God's way of saving their ancestors? I don't know. God could have saved the peoples of the earth how He wanted to. With Noah He chose an ark.

478 posted on 11/27/2014 5:55:36 AM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Resettozero; redleghunter
I'm learning that RCC teaching veers away too much from the Gospel preached by Paul. And it has become more apparent to me why it must...for the RCC to exist as a "Christian" church.

Actually it is ONLY the Catholic Church that is in line with Paul's theology.

1Co 10:15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. 1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a communion of the body of Christ? 1Co 10:17 seeing that we, who are many, are one bread, one body: for we are all partake of the one bread.

1Co 11:23 For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; 1Co 11:24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. 1Co 11:25 In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come.

Notice that Paul states he received it from the Lord.

Don't let the facts get in the way of prot errors.

479 posted on 11/27/2014 6:08:44 AM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: verga
Actually it is ONLY the Catholic Church that is in line with Paul's theology.

Happy All-American Thanksgiving Day!
480 posted on 11/27/2014 6:40:02 AM PST by Resettozero
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