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Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?
Crisis Magazine ^ | November 24, 2014 | DENNIS BONNETTE

Posted on 11/24/2014 1:07:14 PM PST by NYer

the-fall-of-man-hendrick-goltzius

Pure myth! That is today’s typical view of a literal Adam and Eve. Yet, contrary to current skepticism, a real Adam and Eve remain credible—both in terms of Catholic doctrine and sound natural science.

By calling the Genesis story a “myth,” people avoid saying it is mere “fantasy,” that is, with no foundation in reality at all. While rejecting a literal first pair of human parents for all mankind, they hope to retain some “deeper” truth about an original “sinful human condition,” a “mythic” meaning. They think that the latest findings in paleoanthropology and genetics render a literal pair of first true human parents to be “scientifically impossible.”

The prevailing assumption underlying media reports about human origins is that humanity evolved very gradually over vast periods of time as a population (a collection of interbreeding organisms), which itself originally evolved from a Homo/Pan (human/chimpanzee) common ancestor millions of years ago. Therefore, we are not seen as descendants of the biblical Adam and Eve.

This universal evolutionary perspective leads many Catholics and others to conclude that a literal Adam and Eve is “scientifically impossible” for two reasons: First, paleoanthropologists deny the sudden appearance of intelligent, self-reflective, fully-human primates, but rather view the emergence of consciousness and intelligence as taking place slowly and incrementally over long periods of time. Second, in light of recent findings in molecular biology, especially from studies based on genetic data gleaned from the Human Genome Project, it is claimed that the hominin population (the primate group from which modern man is said to have arisen) has never had a bottleneck (reduced population) of a single mating pair in the last seven or more million years: no literal Adam and Eve. Many succumb to the modernist tendency to “adjust” Church teaching to fit the latest scientific claims—thus intimidating Catholics into thinking that divinely revealed truths can be abandoned—“if need be.”

This skepticism of a literal Adam and Eve begs for four much needed corrections.

First, Church teaching about Adam and Eve has not, and cannot, change. The fact remains that a literal Adam and Eve are unchanging Catholic doctrine. Central to St. Paul’s teaching is the fact that one man, Adam, committed original sin and that through the God-man, Jesus Christ, redemption was accomplished (Romans 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15: 21-22). In paragraphs 396-406, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, speaks of Adam and Eve as a single mating pair who “committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state” (CCC, 404). “Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back toward God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle” (CCC, 405). The doctrines surrounding original sin cannot be altered “without undermining the mystery of Christ” (CCC, 389).

Today, many think that Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani generis did not definitively exclude theological polygenism. What they fail to notice, though, is that the Holy Father clearly insists that Scripture and the Magisterium affirm that original sin “proceeds from a sin truly committed by one Adam [ab uno Adamo]” and that this sin is transmitted to all true human beings through generation (para. 37). This proves that denial of a literal Adam (and his spouse, Eve) as the sole first genuinely human parents of all true human beings is not theologically tenable.

Second, rational human nature itself requires that mankind made an instant appearance on planet Earth. Paleoanthropological claims of gradual appearance of specifically human traits fail to comport with a true philosophy of human nature. Reflecting classical Christian thought, St. Thomas Aquinas demonstrates that true man is distinguished essentially from lower animals by possession of an intellectual and immortal soul, which possesses spiritual powers of understanding, judgment, and reasoning (Summa theologiae I, 75). While these qualitatively superior abilities are manifested through special forms of tool making or culture or art, they need not always be evident in the paleontological record. Sometimes true men share mere animal survival behavior and sometimes truly human behavior is lost to modern sight due to the ravages of time. What matters is that genuinely spiritual powers are either present or not, and that these alone bespeak the presence of true man. Irrational animals, including subhuman primates, are capable of complex sentient behaviors often approaching or imitating the rational activities of true man. But an animal either possesses a spiritual, intellectual soul or not. Thus at some point in time, true man suddenly appears—whether visible to modern science or not. Before that time, all subhuman behavior manifests merely material sensory abilities. The fact that positivistic scientists cannot discern the first presence of true man is hardly remarkable.

Third, a correct understanding of the scientific (inductive) method reveals that it cannot ever logically exclude the possibility of two sole founders of humanity. Natural scientific studies employ the inductive method of reasoning. Empirically observed data is employed to form testable hypotheses. Molecular biologists use computer models in an attempt to validate such hypotheses and reach conclusions about genetic conditions in early primate populations. In this process, some researchers have committed the logically invalid move of inferring from particular data to the universally negative claim that a literal Adam and Eve is impossible. Such methodology produces, at best, solely probable conclusions, based on available evidence and the assumptions used to evaluate the data. There is the inherent possibility that an unknown factor will alter the conclusion, similarly as was the unexpected discovery of black swans in Australia, when the whole world “knew” all swans were white.

Fourth, specific scientific arguments against Adam and Eve have proven not as forceful as many presently believe (Gauger 2012). For example, some have claimed that effective population size estimates for the last several million years would not permit just two true humans to have lived during that time. Still, the technical concept of average effective population size estimates should not be confused with an actual “bottleneck” (a temporarily reduced population) which may be much smaller. Effective population size estimates can vary from as high as 14,000 (Blum 2011) to as low as 2,000 (Tenesa 2007), depending on the methods used.

Such calculations rely upon many assumptions about mutation rate, recombination rate, and other factors, that are known to vary widely. All of this entails retrospective calculations about events in the far distant past, for which we have no directly verifiable data. For such reasons, some experts have concluded that effective population size cannot be determined using DNA sequence differences alone (Sjödin 2005; Hawks 2008).

Indeed, the most famous genetic study proclaimed as a “scientific objection” to Adam and Eve turned out to be based on methodological errors. An article by geneticist Francisco J. Ayala appearing in the journal, Science (1995), led many to believe that a founding population of only two individuals was impossible. Ayala based his challenge to monogenism (two sole founders of humanity) on the large number of versions (alleles) of the particular gene HLA-DRB1, which are present in the current population. Accepting the common ancestor theory, he claimed that there were thirty-two ancient lineages of the HLA-DRB1 gene prior to the Homo/Pan split (approximately seven million years ago). Over time, these “pre-split” lineages, themselves, evolved into the new additional versions present today. Because each individual carries only two versions of a gene, a single founding pair could not have passed on the thirty-two versions that Ayala claimed existed some seven million years ago—either at that time or at any time since. A bottleneck of just two true humans, Adam and Eve, was “scientifically impossible.”

However, Ayala’s claim of thirty-two ancient HLA-DRB1 lineages (prior to the Homo/Pan split) was wrong because of methodological errors. The number of lineages was subsequently adjusted by Bergström (1998) to just seven at the time of the split, with most of the genetic diversity appearing in the last 250,000 years. A still later study coming out of Bergström’s group inferred that just four such lineages existed more than five million years ago, but that a few more appeared soon thereafter (von Salomé 2007). While two mating hominins can transmit four lineages, the few additional later ones still require explanation.

These genetic studies, based on many assumptions and use of computer models, do not tell us how the origin of the human race actually took place. But, they do show (1) that methodological limitations and radical contingency are inherent in such studies, which are employed to make retroactive judgments about deeply ancient populations that can never be subject to direct observation, and (2) that present scientific claims against the possibility of a literal Adam and Eve are not definitive (Gauger 2012, 105-122).

Philosopher Kenneth W. Kemp and others have suggested that interbreeding between true humans and subhuman primates in the same biological population might account for presently observed genetic diversity (Kemp 2011). Such interbreeding is not to be confused with the marriages between true human siblings and cousins which would have occurred in the first generations following Adam and Eve, which unions were a necessary part of God’s plan for the initial propagation of mankind (Gen. 1:28).

The difficulty with any interbreeding solution (save, perhaps, in rare instances) is that it would place at the human race’s very beginning a severe impediment to its healthy growth and development. Natural law requires that marriage and procreation take place solely between a man and a woman, so that children are given proper role models for adult life. So too, even if the union between a true human and a subhuman primate were not merely transitory, but lasting, the defective parenting and role model of a parent who is not a true human being would introduce serious disorder in the proper functioning of the family and education of children. Hence, widespread interbreeding is not an acceptable solution to the problem of genetic diversity.

Moreover, given the marked reduction in the number of ancient HLA-DRB1 alleles found by the later genetic studies of Bergström and von Salomé, it may turn out that no interbreeding is needed at all, or at most, that very rare instances of it may have occurred. Such rare events might not even entail the consent of true human beings, since they could result from an attack by a subhuman male upon a non-consenting human female.

A literal Adam and Eve remains rationally, scientifically credible.

Since the same God is author both of human reason and of authentic revelation, legitimate natural science, properly conducted, will never contradict Catholic doctrine, properly understood. Catholic doctrine still maintains that a literal Adam and Eve must have existed, a primal couple who committed that personal original sin, which occasioned the need for, and the divine promise of, the coming of the Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

Editor’s note: The image above is a detail from “The Fall of Man” painted by Hendrik Goltzius in 1616.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: adam; adamandeve; creation; crevo; crevolist; eve; evolution; fazalerana; gardenofeden; genesis; hughross; originalparents; origins
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To: ravenwolf
... all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ ...

No!!

Wait!!!!

It's REALLY supposed to be:

...thus, according to tradition and the teaching of the church fathers; people will NOT be able to understand the things I've told you...

321 posted on 11/26/2014 3:41:01 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Resettozero
Matthias, whom the Eleven selected, isn't mentioned again in the New Testament but Paul, who encountered Jesus Christ in Person and was called by Jesus Christ by name and not by number, certainly is.

That's because he was standing too close to Mary when Scotty beamed HER up into heaven!

322 posted on 11/26/2014 3:43:06 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf
Most of the chosen apostles are not heard from, they were probably out preaching the Gospel as they were told to do.

No; they went directly to heaven with Mary also; as her assistants.

You really don't think she can handle the caseload by herself; do you??

323 posted on 11/26/2014 3:45:01 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf
You REALLY don't think she can handle the caseload by herself; do you??


Let's try some easy math:


There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;

If merely 1% of them  'ask' Mary for help just once each day;

that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.

Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)

...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!

Purty good fer someone NOT 'devine'!

324 posted on 11/26/2014 3:46:52 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: xzins

Yup!


325 posted on 11/26/2014 3:48:29 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf
That is why the N.I.V changed it to account, the preachers could not explain why it said generations in ch 2 because it gives a reason not to believe in a literal six day creation.

Why??



Genesis 2   (KJV)

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

Genesis 2   (NIV)

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
    and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
    for she was taken out of man.

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
New International Version (NIV)

Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.


326 posted on 11/26/2014 3:58:57 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf

Have FUN!!!





Genesis 2:4 (ASV) |  
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.

Genesis 2:4 (AMP) |  
4 This is the history of the heavens and of the earth when they were created. In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens—

Genesis 2:4 (CEB) |  
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (CJB) | 
(A: iv, S: ii) 4 Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven, 

Genesis 2:4 (CEV) | 
4 That’s how God created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 2:4 (DARBY) | 
4 These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens,

Genesis 2:4 (DRA) | 
4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:

Genesis 2:4 (ERV) | The First Man and the Garden of Eden
4 This is the story about the creation of the sky and the earth. This is what happened when the Lord God made the earth and the sky. 

Genesis 2:4 (ESV) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 2:4 (ESVUK) |
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 2:4 (EXB) | 
4 ·This is the story [L These are the generations; C introduces a new section of the book; see also 5:1; 6:9; 10:1; 11:10, 27; 25:12, 19; 36:1, 9]
 of the creation of the ·sky [heavens] and the earth. When the ·Lord God [Yahweh Elohim; C Elohim is the common term for God; 
Lord (capital letters) represents the divine name YHWH, usually pronounced “Yahweh”; see Ex. 3:14–15] first made the earth and the ·sky [heavens], 

Genesis 2:4 (GNV) | 
4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were created, in the day, that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:4 (GW) |
4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Genesis 2:4 (GNT) | 
4 And that is how the universe was created.

Genesis 2:4 (HCSB) | 
4 These are the records of the heavens and the earth, concerning their creation at the time that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. 

 Genesis 2:4 (ISV) |  
4 These are the records of the universe at its creation. On the day that the Lord God made the universe, 

Genesis 2:4 (JUB) | 
4 ¶ These are the origins of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

Genesis 2:4 (KJV) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:4 (AKJV) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 

Genesis 2:4 (KJ21) |  
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:4 (LEB) | 
4 These are the generations of heaven and earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made earth and heaven— 

Genesis 2:4 (TLB) | 
4 Here is a summary of the events in the creation of the heavens and earth when the Lord God made them.

Genesis 2:4 (MSG) | 
This is the story of how it all started, of Heaven and Earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (MEV) | 
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (NOG) | 
4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when Yahweh Elohim made earth and heaven.

Genesis 2:4 (NABRE) | 
 4 This is the story of the heavens and the earth at their creation. When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens— 

Genesis 2:4 (NASB) |
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. 

Genesis 2:4 (NCV) |
4 This is the story of the creation of the sky and the earth. When the Lord God first made the earth and the sky, 

Genesis 2:4 (NET) | The Creation of Man and Woman
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created—when the Lord God made the earth and heavens.

Genesis 2:4 (NIRV) |
4 Here is the story of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (NIV) | 
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 2:4 (NIVUK) | 
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 2:4 (NKJV) | 
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 

Genesis 2:4 (NLV) | 
4 This is the story of the heavens and the earth when they were made, in the day the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. 

Genesis 2:4 (NLT) | 
4 This is the account of the creation of the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 2:4 (NRSV) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (NRSVA) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (NRSVACE) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (NRSVCE) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Bereshis 2:4 (OJB) | 
4 These are the toldot of HaShomayim and of Ha’Aretz when they were created, in the Yom that Hashem Elohim made Eretz v’Shomayim,

Genesis 2:4 (RSV) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (RSVCE) | 
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Genesis 2:4 (VOICE) | 
4 This is the detailed story of the Eternal God’s singular work in creating all that exists. On the day the heavens and earth were created, 

Genesis 2:4 (WEB) | 
4 This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens. 

Genesis 2:4 (WYC) | 
4 These be the generations of heaven and of earth, in the day wherein the Lord God made heaven and earth, (These be the generations, or the creation, of the heavens and the earth, in the days when the Lord God made the heavens and the earth,)

Genesis 2:4 (YLT) | 
4 These [are] births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens;

327 posted on 11/26/2014 4:19:51 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf

Timothy??


328 posted on 11/26/2014 4:20:17 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: redleghunter

Still don’t have a clue as to what I was talking about!


329 posted on 11/26/2014 4:21:19 AM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: redleghunter
That rules out mankind coming from other primates.

Oh?

I've heard the alternate translation of 'dust', is MONKEY.

Therefore...


330 posted on 11/26/2014 4:26:02 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Resettozero
Why would any Christian deny what has been plainly recorded in the Holy Bible?

I've heard it explained:

Poorly Catechized...


331 posted on 11/26/2014 4:27:34 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Verginius Rufus

Whatever the motivation (Cyndi Lauper says that Girls Just Wanna Have Fun!) they got the deed(s) done.


332 posted on 11/26/2014 4:29:55 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Boogieman; teppe

It appears that you’ve confused MAsons with Mormons...

http://www.bing.com/search?q=secret+handshakes+and+passwords+mormon&src=IE-TopResult&FORM=IETR02&conversationid=


333 posted on 11/26/2014 4:32:11 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Tennessee Nana

halfway...


334 posted on 11/26/2014 4:32:44 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: redleghunter
Genesis 1 shows Adam created on the 6th day. Genesis 1 gives us the ‘telescoping” of creation. Genesis 2 gives is the “microscoping” approach with Adam and Eve the center of subject.

Like I've heard about giving a talk..

Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em;
Then tell 'em what you said you'd tell 'em.

335 posted on 11/26/2014 4:35:04 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: redleghunter

Then the Catholics invented...

...tell ‘em what He REALLY told ‘em.


336 posted on 11/26/2014 4:35:48 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: verga

I’m like this a lot these days.

What WUZ I thinking when I ‘rote that yesterday???


337 posted on 11/26/2014 4:37:56 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf
It don`t say Adam and eve were created on the sixth day, of course if you want to add a little I guess that is ok, all of the scholars do.

Correct, Adam and Eve are not specifically named in chapter 1. But they are the focused subject of chapter 2-3. In the following chapters of Genesis it is confirmed they were the first pair of humans.

As I mentioned in previously, we have a telescopic view of Creation in chapter one. A microscopic view in chapter 2.

338 posted on 11/26/2014 5:55:54 AM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: verga
Still don’t have a clue as to what I was talking about!

I understand. When you do get a clue as to what you are talking about ping me.

339 posted on 11/26/2014 5:57:57 AM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: redleghunter
I understand. When you do get a clue as to what you are talking about ping me.

YOU are the one that has no clue about what I was talking about and apparently still don't.

340 posted on 11/26/2014 6:02:05 AM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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