Posted on 11/03/2014 11:14:00 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o
NWhen Southern Baptists convened a national conference here this week to discuss issues of human sexuality, bringing conservative evangelicals and LGBT Christian activists into the same ballroom was a recipe ripe for potential fireworks.
Perhaps the most shocking thing was how few fireworks there were.
The Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission was clear: Sex is reserved between a man and a woman within the bonds in marriage. And openly gay evangelicals in attendance were equally clear: Homosexuality is not incompatible with Christianity.
No concessions were made, but leaders on both sides expressed surprise at how the two agreed to coexist. Put another way: The old emphasis on “Love the sinner, hate the sin” has become more a version of simply “Love all sinners. Ask questions later.”
“I do want to apologize to the gay and lesbian community on behalf of my community and me for not standing up against abuse and discrimination directed towards you. That was wrong and we need your forgiveness,” said North Carolina megachurch pastor J.D. Greear, drawing applause.
“We have to love our gay neighbor more than our position on sexual morality.”
For now, at least, some gay groups seem willing to give the other side the benefit of the doubt.
The conference brought together a “who’s who” within contemporary conversations on homosexuality and evangelicalism, including ERLC President Russell Moore and Atlanta megachurch pastor Andy Stanley, who attended the conference of 1,300 with a group of other pastors from his nondenominational North Point Community Church.
The interactions were largely friendly, with none of the hostility seen from both sides in recent years. Inside the ballroom and out in the hallway, LGBT activists mingled with Southern Baptist leaders. From the crowd, gay advocates tweeted responses to the speakers on stage, at times seeming to overtake the conference’s Twitter hashtag.
While the substance remained much the same, the evangelicals’ shift in tone was noticeable. Moore regularly referred to people who are gay — not merely people who are sexual sinners in need of redemption — and denounced so-called “ex-gay” therapy as “severely counterproductive.”
Even the Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., the veteran culture warrior and president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., seemed to have a change in tune, if not an outright change of heart.
“Early in this controversy, I felt it quite necessary, in order to make clear the gospel, to deny anything like a sexual orientation,” Mohler told the crowd. “I repent of that.”
Yet the thawed relations could not hide tensions between the ideas of “loving your neighbor” and “defending your rights,” particularly as legal recognition of same-sex marriage continues its lightning-fast expansion across the country. With the clashes between religious liberty and gay rights that inevitably follow, many still question whether the friendly conversations can continue.
The closest conference speakers came to politics came during presentations from the Arizona-based Alliance Defending Freedom on what it sees as a threat posed to religious freedom by legalized gay marriage.
Barronelle Stutzman, the Washington state florist who declined to sell flowers for a same-sex ceremony, drew a standing ovation. Erik Stanley of ADF, the organization defending business owners like Stutzman, called the murder of Matthew Shepard in Wyoming in 1998 “a hate crime myth.” Attendees listen to a speaker during the 2014 ERLC National Conference.
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Attendees listen to a speaker during the 2014 Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission National Conference. Photo courtesy of Rocket Republic, via ERLC National Conference
Mohler also decried “revisionists,” or LGBT advocates like Matthew Vines, who are encouraging evangelicals to embrace the idea that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. A copy of Mohler’s rebuttal to Vines’ book was included in the conference grab bag.
Even as Moore denounced ex-gay therapy, he nonetheless cited examples of some people who have changed their sexual orientation.The conference also featured four speakers, including Rosaria Butterfield whose personal story went viral last year, who spoke of leaving homosexuality or embracing celibacy.
Even so, specific political positions or political endorsements were largely absent. “Baptizing lost people and teaching them to vote Republican is not a revival,” Moore said to cheers and claps.
Numerous conference speakers encouraged Christians to love their neighbors who identify as LGBT. Focus on the Family President Jim Daly, who has cultivated a friendship with a lobbyist for the gay rights advocacy Gill Foundation, said he prays for LGBT activist Tim Gill.
Several speakers said the church should lead, not follow, in combating anti-gay bullying. “You have to ask, what greater lie we could tell about our savior than to distance ourselves from the hurting and the broken in the moment they needed us most,” Greear asked. - See more at: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4Cj3Tea5L98J:www.religionnews.com/2014/10/31/southern-baptists-lgbt-activists-happily-co-exist-but-for-how-long/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a#sthash.OHTy0QTD.dpuf
““Early in this controversy, I felt it quite necessary, in order to make clear the gospel, to deny anything like a sexual orientation,” Mohler told the crowd. “I repent of that.”
Count this Southern Baptist as disgusted. What if someone has a “gambling orientation”? Or an “adulterous orientation”? Should we welcome them and tell them we don’t care if they sin?
I have a “foul mouth” orientation, and a “pride” orientation. That doesn’t mean Southern Baptists need to ignore cussing and pride, or to turn a blind eye to my failures.
Sin is sin. It needs repentance.
What is next? A pedophilia orientation? A necrophilia orientation? How bad does it have to be for Christians to simply say, “Repent” and “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”?
“I posted this because experienced pastors are increasingly saying that that doctrine can be taught best in a pastoral approach which doesn’t start out by reviling and repulsing the lost lamb.”
In John 6, does Jesus try to stay friends with everyone? Does He use the “pastoral approach” to those who refused His message? Or did He drive them away by His unyielding insistence?
“As a consequence of this, many of his disciples withdrew and no longer followed him.”
We need to be willing to preach others away from Christ, if the preaching is the truth. The Stumbling Stone is still making some stumble...
“It is to you who believe in him that he is “precious”, but to those who disobey God, it is true that: ‘The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone’. And he is, to them, ‘a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense’.
Yes, they stumble at the Word of God for in their hearts they are unwilling to obey it—which makes stumbling a foregone conclusion.”
” I don’t think the rapproachment between the LGBT activists and some of these pastors is going to sit well in the more conservative churches of the convention.”
It will go over like a turd in a punchbowl...
A *gospel* that don’t offend people is not the true gospel.
The true gospel WILL offend some, actually, probably most.
It won’t others.
Asolutely.
I don't think anybody from SBC is telling them we don't care if they sin. There's nothing in this article that says that.
"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
But he didn't lead off by saying, "Hi there, verily, you're abominable."
Did the gay activists meeting with them discuss how repenting helped them? Did they agree that homosexuality is perverse and condemned by God?
Will these so-called SBC leaders meet with adulterer activists who want to normalize adultery?
Did they look these activists in the eye and tell them to repent or die? Did they call modern America a corrupt generation?
Can you imagine these SBC leaders getting up in this meeting and saying:
Wisdom cries aloud in the street,
in the markets she raises her voice;
at the head of the noisy streets she cries out;
at the entrance of the city gates she speaks:
“How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple?
How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing
and fools hate knowledge?
If you turn at my reproof,
behold, I will pour out my spirit to you;
I will make my words known to you.
Because I have called and you refused to listen,
have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,
because you have ignored all my counsel
and would have none of my reproof,
I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when terror strikes you,
when terror strikes you like a storm
and your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
when distress and anguish come upon you.
Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer;
they will seek me diligently but will not find me.
Because they hated knowledge
and did not choose the fear of the Lord,
would have none of my counsel
and despised all my reproof,
therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way,
and have their fill of their own devices.
For the simple are killed by their turning away,
and the complacency of fools destroys them;
but whoever listens to me will dwell secure
and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.”
What about Stephen? Was he filled with the Holy Spirit?
“You obstinate people, heathen in your thinking, heathen in the way you are listening to me now! It is always the same—you never fail to resist the Holy Spirit! Just as your fathers did so are you doing now. Can you name a single prophet whom your fathers did not persecute? They killed the men who long ago foretold the coming of the just one, and now in our own day you have become betrayers and his murderers. You are the men who have received the Law of God miraculously, by the hand of angels, and you are the men who have disobeyed it!”
These words stung them to fury and they ground their teeth at him in rage. Stephen, filled through all his being with the Holy Spirit, looked steadily up into Heaven. He saw the glory of God, and Jesus himself standing at his right hand.
I'm watching this one.
Not so, that's not what MamaB said anyway, they can disfellowship an individual Baptist church from the S.B.C. but not strip them of the name "Baptist", just consider Phelps' "Baptist" church.
Any church may call itself "Baptist" just as any church can call itself "Catholic"
You are correct. Although I do have a brain, it is a million miles away! My mom’s family belonged to a Primitive Baptist church or I think that was the name. I do not know the difference between it, Southern and the others.
There is a balance, and sometimes he was very caustic; at other times very tender, and always fair. He can see the condition of one's heart, not make a mistake, and respond appropriately, something I (we) can miss. People with homosexual temptations may be received in repentance and faith: they cannot marry or have sex with anyone after the homosexual model. It is abomination and wickedness. Temptation is not sin. Temptation must be resisted.
1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
My favorite religious painting is that of Jesus knocking on a door with no knob. It illustrates a great concept. Jesus and those who really serve him are bold in offering repentance, but they leave it up to you or I to complete the motion by opening the door from the inside. Yes, it’s normal to feel offended by the truth. We all have our own difficulties about it, but it’s part of learning, and part of the journey.
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