Posted on 11/03/2014 5:02:42 AM PST by Sam's Army
The idea that the Bible declares hell a real and literal place is no more valid than the toxic lie that the Bible condemns homosexuality.
Yet the idea that hell is real persists. Why? Because over the centuries those in positions of power within the institutions of Christianity have methodically, relentlessly, and with great art used the doctrine of hell to exploit the innate fear of death that is harbored by one and all.
Show me a Christian terrified of hell, and I’ll show you a Christian ready to pay good money for the assurance that he is not going there.
If you don’t think the “doctrine” of hell is about the accrual of money and power, then … then God bless your naiveté.
For the rest of us, it’s certainly worth asking what a Christianity without hell would look like. Well …
A Christianity without hell would be literally fearless.
A Christianity without hell would have nothing to recommend it but the constant and unending love of God. It would allow Christians to point upward to God’s love—but never downward to His/Her wrath.
A Christianity without hell would be largely unevangelical, since there would be nothing to save anyone from.
A Christianity without hell would trust that God’s loving benevolence towards all people (emphasis on all) extends beyond this life and into the next.
Bringing peace about the afterlife, a Christianity without hell would free Christians to fully embrace this life, to heed Christ’s commandment to in this life love our neighbors as we love ourselves.
In short, a Christianity without hell would be a fearless, trusting, loving, divinely inspired source of good in the world.
And this Christianity would be more biblical—would be truer to not just the words but the very spirit of Christianity—than any Christianity that posits the reality of hell.
I want that Christianity. I insist upon that Christianity.
Tell me I’m not alone.
I really liked and pretty much agree with your post. One thing, though: I believe justice will be brought against true evil, but I believe God will follow his standard MO for those that refuse Christ. There are lots of OT examples of what God does to the unrighteous. And the interpretation by those whos lives are contemperaneous with those events are apparent: The evildoers are done away with. They are removed, killed, etc. The only suffering they receive is at the time of death and, of course, the miserableness of their lives before they died.
Ditto
Phillyred, I appreciate that you turned to scripture. You should look much deeper and further than just trying for some proof texts. That you use Isaiah 33:14 - “Who of us can dwell in the everlasting fire?” is funny because the prophet answers his question in the next verse of who will dwell in everlasting fire. “15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;”
Some of the passages make reference to what it is talking about in Revelation. I hope you are prepared to answer for yourself the difference between hell and the lake of fire, since one is thrown into the other.
You also need to answer why righteous men in the Old Testament like Job and Jacob expected to be in hell. But that gets back to knowing the difference between the words as already mentioned. Just last night I heard a guy with a theology degree give the standard answer. The old testament writers simply didn’t understand the state of the dead. That denies the Holy Spirit authorship of scripture, and is a direct attack on the authority of scripture.
You mention Sodom as an example. So are you suggesting that Sodom is still burning somewhere? I think not, but you are missing the logic hole. Their destruction by fire was complete.
Also you need to answer the dozens of verses that speak of the end of the wicked as complete, and final, and juxtapose life for the righteous verses death for the unrighteous, instead of juxtaposing eternal life of happiness and eternal torture.
Further you may want to consider a basic point of logic. Finite humans, created by God, do not deserve, and cannot EARN eternal life with Him. The fact that it is obtainable reflects upon God as gracious and merciful. However, how do you think finite humans can EARN infinite torture? What would that reflect upon God?
What are you trying to say? If by the prophet you mean me, all I did was suggest studying the Greek and Hebrew of Scripture to understand their original use and meaning. Are you suggesting that is logical fallacy?
I'm glad you noticed and commented on that. I almost "corrected" the title when posting this to capitalize the H, but thought against it as it does help to reflect the author's obviously skewed perspective.
At the risk of being vilified on this subject, here is a link to a serious study of the subject of Jesus’ Teaching on Hell.
We all have been subjected in our Bible translations to inconsistent translations of these words. A brief outline follows:
Major points of Hell Study
A Plea for Open-Mindedness
Hell vs. Sheol and Hades
Popular Concept of Hell Unknown to the Old Testament
Where Did the Concept of Endless Torment Originate?
The Twelve Occurences of Gehenna in the Bible
Other Terminology Commonly Thought to Refer to Eternal Fiery Hell
Is Hell Even a Proper Translation for Gehenna?
Did Gehenna Even Need Translating?
What is the Origin of the English Word “Hell”?
Summary of Jesus’ Teaching on Hell
If you would like to seriously study this subject, please see
http://sgdpress.com/Jesus__Teaching_on_Hell.html
I will selectively respond to serious questions and comments on this subject, but will not respond to misrepresentations, impugning motives, labeling, nor vilification.
You created a choice between not knowing what the original Greek and/or Hebrew was and therefore not understanding the scripture. Your either/or also inferred that pastors do not teach properly on such issues.
It is possible to understand scripture without going to the original words. It is also possible to be taught by properly taught be pastors.
In other words you haven’t examined the Greek and Hebrew words and are taking your pastors word for it.
“It is possible to understand scripture without going to the original words.”
Really? So please tell me, when you read grave in English in the Old Testament do you in your mind understand that as hell, or when you read hell in English in the Old Testament do you read that as grave. Sheol is the Hebrew and it is translated 31 times grave, 31 times hell, and three times pit. So if you believe hell and grave are different please explain to me how you can understand what the passage is saying.
“It is also possible to be taught by properly taught be pastors.” Sure it is possible but Gods word is also possible...
“Ezekiel 34:1-4King James Version (KJV)
34 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?”
You also assume too much.
“Often the biggest critics of the ideas of Heaven and Hell are the Jews”
Wrong. Hell is taught in the Talmud.
If you don’t want me to assume, then please answer the questions.
“when used as a proper name, to reflect a real place, like Heaven, Hell is capitalized. Those who use it in lower case subconsciously try to strip it of that distinction.”
Please show me in the “received text” where it makes either a proper noun. Oh, wait forget it, that’s right, the original text doesn’t distinguish proper nouns.
A lot of argument about that.
Most Jewish ideas about the afterlife developed in post-biblical times. The Hebrew Scriptures themselves have few references to life after death. Sheol, the grave, is portrayed as the place of the dead, but Sheol is a metaphor for oblivion and not an actual place where the dead “live” and retain consciousness.
You are talking about apples AND oranges. Let me try to separate them.
Hebrew/Christian scriptures use sheol pretty much as you describe.
Jewish ideas were modified in Babylonian captivity and later. The Talmud became the basis for Judaism. Ideas of eternal punishment were taught in Sumeria, Babylon, pre-Christian Greece etc.
Do you agree or disagree with the author's premise?
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