If it makes you feel better to keep repeating that to yourself, have at it!
Posted on 10/22/2014 9:11:53 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Reader Marko sends in this FiveThirtyEight analysis showing that on social issues, especially homosexuality, Catholics are far more likely to be liberal than other Christians, and even Americans in general Excerpts:
In the U.S, the General Social Survey, which is conducted by the research organization NORC at the University of Chicago, has been asking about divorce and gay rights since the early 1970s, and about cohabitation since 1994 (typically at least every two years). At my request, GSS director Tom W. Smith sent data, broken down by religion, for half a dozen questions. In their answers, American Catholics consistently have shown themselves to be more tolerant of divorce, gay rights and unmarried cohabitation than have American Protestants and Americans overall — especially in recent years.
More, from an international perspective:
In general, the higher a share of a country’s residents are Catholic, the higher percentage of residents express tolerance toward divorce and towards gays. The effect isn’t huge, but it’s consistent.
I think most conservative Catholics intuit this, which accounts partly for their anxiety over the prospect of Rome’s waffling. They know that they are minorities within their own church, and they grieve over the possibility that the Church itself may undercut their convictions.
The Pew Center finds that an overwhelming number of US Catholics aged 18 to 29 accept homosexuality (85 percent) and support same-sex marriage (75 percent). More worryingly for conservative Catholics, when the question is asked of weekly massgoers, who are by definition more likely to be involved in the faith and in their parish, the number of overall pro-SSM Catholics is an astonishing 45 percent. Only 44 percent of weekly massgoers support the Church’s teaching, which is to oppose same-sex marriage. The last 11 percent presumably don’t know how they feel. Given the strong cultural currents moving toward full acceptance of gay marriage, there is no reason to believe that when they do make their minds up, that all, or even most, of those undecided Catholics will break for the Church’s position. In fact, given that Pew’s analysis doesn’t break out the weekly massgoers by age group, it is likely that the opposition to SSM is heavily weighted toward the seniors, a group that is literally dying out.
So, is it the case that the Catholic Church has to liberalize on these issues to attract disaffected Catholics? I wouldn’t say so at all. In a survey published in March, Pew polled American Catholics on their thoughts about Pope Francis. Money graf:
But despite the pope’s popularity and the widespread perception that he is a change for the better, it is less clear whether there has been a so-called “Francis effect,” a discernible change in the way American Catholics approach their faith. There has been no measurable rise in the percentage of Americans who identify as Catholic. Nor has there been a statistically significant change in how often Catholics say they go to Mass. And the survey finds no evidence that large numbers of Catholics are going to confession or volunteering in their churches or communities more often.
So, this is the dilemma the Pope and the bishops face: Western nations (North and South America, and Europe) are liberalizing radically on homosexuality, and so are many Catholics. But there is no evidence that the liberalized attitudes symbolized (rightly or wrongly) by Pope Francis are making any difference in the participation of Catholics in the life of the Church. In other words, the Catholic Church is not regaining liberals it has lost, or who have drifted away from engagement with the faith. At the same time, Rome runs the very real risk of alienating the orthodox core that remains faithful to its teachings. Where will that leave the Church?
This is not to say that the Roman church doesn’t need to develop a better set of pastoral practices regarding divorce and homosexuality. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. The question shouldn’t be off limits. But as the controversies coming out of the Synod in this past week have demonstrated, the Pope and his men are playing with fire. One way or another, the Catholic Church, like all Christian churches, is going to experience significant decline in the West in the decades to come. The Church will, as Pope Benedict XVI predicted, be smaller. No doubt about it. The children of today’s Christian progressives will likely be tomorrow’s secularists. The future of Christianity in the West depends on the orthodox and their families. It is very hard to get religious progressives to see this, but there it is. If the Pope isn’t careful, he could suppress and alienate those who are the most faithful to the Church, without any gain whatsoever.
That said, as these polls reveal, the ocean between Rome and the United States is not just the one called the Atlantic.
....In general, the higher a share of a country’s residents are Catholic, the higher percentage of residents express tolerance toward divorce and towards gays. The effect isn’t huge, but it’s consistent.
One of their kids is now a confirmed homosexual. Another is a drug-addled ne'er-do-well. My friend decided early on to avoid her parents' so-called faith, which of course is no faith at all since they were always fearful regarding God's acceptance of them.
She's doing alright, but is extremely wary of religion in general because of her resentment toward her parents. I pray she will one day understand the difference between religion and a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Catholicism is the religious equivalent of Big Government.
Catholics being liberal-minded is a result of all that so-called tolerance gobble-de-gook.
For some persons tolerance is another synonym for charity. But, charity is a noun - it is a cardinal virtue according to the catholic church. Tolerance is not usually a noun, but an adjective. Example - tolerance of what??? One can have a tolerant attitude - tolerance requires a subject which explains what a person is tolerant of.
Should one be tolerant of evil; of the devil’s actions? The era of the hippie movement is the progenitor of what we are reaping today - flower children, I’m OK, you’re OK, etc. The notion that we can think our way to utopia without the reliance upon a Creator and some eternal rules for behavior.
So, the problem with some Catholics is simply that they have caved in to the moral decay of the day. When Protestants cave in, they usually no longer perceive themselves as necessarily Christians - more as agnostics. Bur for a lot of reasons Catholics cling to the identity as Catholics when they are behaving as agnostics. I have relatives that are like this. I just shake my head in disbelief.
“I pray she will one day understand the difference between religion and a relationship with Jesus Christ.”
I pray that many here at FR will one day understand the difference between Protestantism and a full relationship with Jesus Christ.
The Democratic Party welcomes you!
....According to the Saint Leo poll, Catholic Americans believe, by a whopping 68-18% margin (with 14% undecided) that Catholics who are divorced and remarried should be admitted to Communion. At a similarly overwhelming rate (66-21) they think the Church should accept artificial contraception. A solid voting majority (50-33) would drop the ban on extra-marital sex as well. And by a slight plurality, they would accept same-sex marriages, too........What makes this particular St. Leo survey so interesting is the fact that the answers are broken into two categories: the responses from Catholics and those from non-Catholics. In every case, the answers from non-Catholics are substantially closer to the teachings of the Catholic Church.
-- from the thread When Catholics Are Less Catholic Than Non-Catholics
My mother was a catholic. Out of four children not a one is catholic. When my daughter was born she asked me when we were going to have her christened. I told we were not going to have that done. She said of course we will. I told her on no we're not and that was the end of that. My daughter is a good protestant woman today.
The vast majority of protestant churches have no issue with the artificial contraception and divorce. And on same-sex 'marriage' and extra-marital sex, many protestant churches have no problem whatsoever.
I guess it burns you people that the Catholic Church is the only Church that doctrinally opposes the decadence of modern world.
If it makes you feel better to keep repeating that to yourself, have at it!
That's the irony -- In reality Protestant churches are based on the virtue of men, and where it fails they fall; yet at the same time Protestants love to level that accusation at the Catholic Church.
The application of doctrine is where Rome falls short thought. <Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink>
Oh my....
They get good works fuzziness
We get Joel Osteen...lol
All sects have their highs and lows
The lurch is in lock step indeed, and let’s not forget Joe Biden, and Palousy, and...
You are throwing mud instead of dealing with the subject. This thread is about the fact that Catholics are far more likely to be liberal, and vote that way. How about you then, do you run with the majority of Catholics and vote Democrat?
Poll after poll after poll shows the same results year in and year out, no matter who does it, even the Catholic church, and it gets denied time and again here on the RF, and yet NOBODY shows poll results that prove any different. They just deny it and expect us to take them are their word.
Fat chance.....
No it doesn't because *official* church doctrine is totally meaningless when there's no action to back up the words.
The Catholic church shows what it TRULY believes by what it does, not by what it claims, just like everyone else in the world.
And if the Catholic church truly opposes the decadence of the world, it would deal with pederast priests, it would stop condoning the world system by advocating for church enforced socialism by secular governments, it would stop serving communion to the likes of Pelosi, Kerry, Biden etc, and stop giving Catholic funerals to the likes of Kennedy and Chavez.
Talk is cheap and the Catholic church is doing NOTHING to stem the tide of liberalism and socialism that are overtaking this world.
Salt is supposed to make a difference and all we see within the Catholic church is the same rot that's overtaking the rest of the world.
Good observation.
It must be irritating to first time conservatives visitors to this site. FR is known to be one of the best, if not the best, conservative forum, yet they come away with the impression, by taking a cursory look at the threads on RF, that it is a Catholic site. Knowing that the RCC, from Pope to the pew, is flat out liberal, and vote that way. Its common knowledge everywhere. Quite a paradox.
No it doesn't because *official* church doctrine is totally meaningless when there's no action to back up the words. The Catholic church shows what it TRULY believes by what it does, not by what it claims, just like everyone else in the world.
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
-- James 2:14-15
Any FReeper, even a Protestant one, can post as many threads as they want to the Religion Forum. If the forum lacks a Protestant focus, don't look to the Catholics to change that.
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