Posted on 10/08/2014 5:36:44 PM PDT by Gamecock
The apocrypha (απόκρυφα means "hidden") is a set of books written between approximately 400 B.C. and the time of Christ that is rejected by the Protestants and officially accepted by the Roman Catholic Church in 1546 as being inspired. These books are Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (also known as Ecclesiasticus), and Baruch.
But if the Apocrypha is a Scripture, then it should not have any errors. But since it does have errors, as will be demonstrated below, this puts into question whether or not the Roman Catholic Church has properly used its self-proclaimed position as the teaching authority of the Christian Church. If it can error in such an important manner as what is Scripture, can it be trusted to properly teach the Christian Church? The following references can be verified at http://www.newadvent.org/bible.
When we look into the apocrypha itself, we find numerous problems. For example, we see it advocating magic where the smoke of a fish heart on a fire drives away devils.
Tobit 6:5-7, "Then the angel said to him: Take out the entrails of this fish, and lay up his heart, and his gall, and his liver for thee: for these are necessary for useful medicines. 6 And when he had done so, he roasted the flesh thereof, and they took it with them in the way: the rest they salted as much as might serve them, till they came to Rages the city of the Medes. 7 Then Tobias asked the angel, and said to him: I beseech thee, brother Azarias, tell me what remedies are these things good for, which thou hast bid me keep of the fish? 8 And the angel, answering, said to him: If thou put a little piece of its heart upon coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kind of devils, either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them."
Is it true that the smoke from a fish's heart, when burned, drives away evil spirits? Of course not. Such a superstitious teaching has no place in the word of God.
Salvation by works:
We know from Scripture that alms (money or food given to the poor or needy as charity) does not purge our sins. The blood of Christ is what cleanses us--not money or food given to poor people. "but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).
Money as an offering for the sins of the dead:
2 Maccabbees 12:43, "And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection."
Can anyone truly accept that money isn't offering for the sins of dead people? Such a superstitious and unbiblical concept has no place in Scripture.
Wrong historical facts:
The book of Judith incorrectly says that Nebuchadnezzar was the king of the Assyrians when he was the king of the Babylonians.1
Baruch 6:2 says the Jews would serve in Babylon for seven generations where Jer. 25:11 says it was for 70 years. "And this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years."
Obviously the apocrypha has serious problems. From magic, to salvation by works, to money as an offering for the sins of the dead, and blatant incorrect historical facts--it is full of false and unbiblical teachings. It isn't inspired of God. Likewise, neither is the Roman Catholic Church, which has stated the Apocrypha is inspired. This shows the Roman Catholic Church is not the means by which God is communicating his truth to his people, that the Magisterium has erred greatly, and that it is infested with man's false tradition rather than God's absolute truth.
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Did he not declare them "dogma" and that made them official teaching of the catholic church?? It was either dogma before or it wasn't.
If it was dogma why did he have to proclaim it as such?
Not if you read it and understand it it doesn't.
Real life scenario: someone who is not saved is at the hospital with moments to live. they repent and profess faith in Christ. upon doing so they immediately die.
Are they saved?
Do they go to Heaven?
oh, good...you get to make your own rules....I thought that Baptism freed us from original sin and that the Sacrament of penance freed us from our mortal and venial sins....now you tell me that I'm wrong....oh well, I tried.
The shed blood of Christ is what washes away the sins...all sins. Big ones and little ones. Penance does nothing for us. Baptism is an outward sign of that cleansing. Without repentance and faith in Christ, baptism just means you are a wet sinner.
I think I have it figured out. The OT and NT saints, who wrote the scriptures under the direct influence of the Holy Spirit, still made tons of errors and contradictions. But the collective minds of the Catholic church are capable of writing without error!
Yes.
So?
The year Martin Luther died?
No Christian believes that forgiveness of sins comes from anyone or anywhere other than Christ.
You believe that we are forgiven when we say “I believe in Jesus Christ and believe He will forgive my sins.
The Sacraments are WORDS. Sign language. Every effect they have is because of the death and resurrection of Christ—to which they all refer, just like words.
It helps the conversation if you include the comments you're referring to.
Same with Baptism, that's what Scripture says, but that's not what it means.
You mean well..
If You Love Spurgeon.... You will like the Early Church Fathers.. They all wrote about the Eucharist. The Only Covenant of the New Testament. Every Book Chosen was chosen based on a contribution to The Liturgy of the Eucharist.
It confounds me How Protestant can Over Look Jesus Christ own words in John 6. He lost most of his followers because they wouldn’t accept the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
If You don’t like the Catholic Catechism. Try reading the DIDACHE.. The original one that the Apostles compiled..
Read the Early Church Fathers They ALL talk about the Real Presence of the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
some traveled with Peter another recruited by John the Apostle.
Did you know the 1st 32 POPES were Martyered? Do you think they did it in Vain? The Early Catholics couldn’t proselytize
Like we do because they would be KILLED. Thats why they met at the Cemeteries the Catacombs . They used to rescue the abandoned the Babies from the rivers and Underneath Bridges at Night where they were left to die by being eaten by ANIMals.
Pagans watched how they lived a truely Christian life and witnessed their Love of their neighbors. That was the magnet to evangelization. You can learn this and more of the Growing Pains of the Catholic Church.Read the early Church Fathers they were there!
Between 70-90 AD The Old Testament was the Greek Version.
This was part of the time of Transition to Catholicism from Judaism. The New Testament shows those Pains... Circumcision was the defining Moment of defining a families Faith as Jewish when performed on males. Christ however Introduced Baptism to replace that ritual where Men and women YOUNG and OLD got Baptized to mark their acceptance of Christ.
Read about the transition through the people who lived it and wrote about it!
It is like the rower seated next to George Washington writing about what happened before during and after crossing the Delaware.
Embrace the Church Fathers the Bible will come alive....You will appreciate the writings of JOHN in their TRUE Splendor!
I agree no Christian believes forgiveness comes from anyone other than Christ. I'm just not sure about catholicism.
"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema," (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).
"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema," (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 14).
If any one saith, that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema." (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 24).
You believe that we are forgiven when we say “I believe in Jesus Christ and believe He will forgive my sins.
Yes. That's what Christ teaches. That's good enough for me.
The Sacraments are WORDS. Sign language. Every effect they have is because of the death and resurrection of Christ—to which they all refer, just like words.
How many of them even knew they were Pope? The whole post-mortem Pope thing is bothersome to many when it comes to Roman Catholicism's own claims of antiquity.
>Just to be clear: You don’t believe that Baptism removes Original Sin or forgives actual sins? Or that it causes the indwelling of the Trinity? Or that it gives grace? It’s just a ritual that makes a person a member of a club?<
ME: Real life scenario: someone who is not saved is at the hospital with moments to live. they repent and profess faith in Christ. upon doing so they immediately die.
Are they saved?
Do they go to Heaven?
I presume your yes is an answer to these two questions. If that is the case it takes away the catholic teaching of the necessity of baptism for salvation does it not?
To err is human.
To "error" takes a blogger.
Please be clear
Are you saying that you know better than the Holy Spirit who inspired all Scripture? Hmmmm
No it can't. Only the blood of Jesus can wash away sin.
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