Posted on 09/27/2014 11:05:41 AM PDT by Gamecock
The only chaos that results is from those who add to Scripture by claiming extra-Biblical revelation to a man or a select group of men as Joseph Smith, Ellen White, or the magisterium or pope.
Then you find stuff that contradicts the clear teaching and instruction of Jesus and the Holy Spirit given us through Scripture.
Catholics and their bloodlust....
Jesus; do you know that certain people are limiting the works you spoke just before these?
I'll bet your mom knows!
I opposed Peter to his face, because he was CLEARLY in the wrong.
WORDS not WORKS...
In the Religion forum, on a thread titled THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries, metmom wrote:
Catholics and their bloodlust....
I don't see any conflict or contradiction.
The Holy Spirit indwells the Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth," and "the body of Christ." Members of the body of Christ wrote the Scriptures, inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Church then formally recognized the inspired writings.
Many spurious "gospels" existed in the first two or three centuries. The Church infallibly determined which writings were inspired, and which were not.
DEI VERBUM
CHAPTER III
SACRED SCRIPTURE, ITS INSPIRATION AND DIVINE INTERPRETATION11. Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For holy mother Church, relying on the belief of the Apostles (see John 20:31; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:19-20, 3:15-16), holds that the books of both the Old and New Testaments in their entirety, with all their parts, are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.(1) In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him (2) they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, (3) they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted. (4)
"Hold fast to the traditions we have handed on to you, either by word of mouth or by letter." --St. Paul
Paul divides Sacred Tradition into Oral Tradition and Written Tradition (Scripture).
By definition, Oral Tradition isn't written down.
The Sacred Oral Tradition of the Church is the infallible authority.
***
On occasion, Sacred Tradition is formally declared and defined by the Church. This usually happens when it is challenged by a heretic.
Such was the case with the doctrine of the Trinity, which was formally defined in response to the spread of the Arian heresy.
Similarly, although the canon of Scripture had been defined by several local Church Councils in the fourth century, the Traditional canon of Scripture wasn't universally, formally defined until Trent, in response to Luther's removal of several books from the canon.
Well that's not what the scripture says at all...Your claim here has nothing to do with scripture...
"Hold fast to the traditions we have handed on to you, either by word of mouth or by letter."
Paul never said you or anyone could create traditions in the future...He said the traditions that HE handed to YOU...
Paul did not say the ability to invent traditions would be given to anyone...
So again, your religion is perverting scripture to try to prove something that is unbiblical...
Fortunately a lot of former Catholics have wised up...But, there's still a bunch of you left...
And by that I assume you mean the Catholic Church...If your religion can't prove that with scripture, they are lying to you...
We on the other hand can and have proven with scripture that your religion is not the 'church'...
The Holy Spirit indwells individual believers.
Explain how the Holy Spirit indwells *the church*.
Where is the Holy Spirit located?
And where is *the church* without the people who make it up?
Priests lock Him up in wafers, not just for consumption but for safekeeping?
So prove it's the same "traditions" the apostles were talking about.
>>The Sacred Oral Tradition of the Church is the infallible authority.<<
Please show the scripture that says the "church" would be infallible.
Paul commended us to God and His word, not to some successor.
Acts 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
They simply rubber stamped what was already accepted as Scripture. It is a meaningless gesture because Scripture is Scripture and stands alone on its own merit with or without anyone's approval.
Specifically, what traditions did Paul teach that were passed down by *tradition* (aka word of mouth) that are not included in the Bible?
And why weren't they included? Why did they have to be added *later* when the Catholic church claims that Scripture was written so much later and claims that it was based on tradition?
Did they forget to add stuff at the time?
Wow, is that a dissertation? Or do you just have waaaayyy too much time on your hands?
The time and energy the haters spend here ranting against the Catholic Church could be better spent volunteering at a school or a food bank instead. I’m sure that would please Our Lord much more than the terrible things that are said on here about his mother.
And yet here you are.
Wouldn’t YOUR time also better be spent volunteering at a school or food bank?
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Was Peter crucified for you???
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Paul says you Catholics are carnal...I certainly won't argue that...
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
There is no Petrine authority...It is a carnal dogma your religion has latched onto...
Intellectuals; Philosophers???
Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
Petrine authority???
1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
The bible destroys your false theory of Petrine authority...
Your street theology won’t do. Go ask the scores of Protestant theologians who converted to Catholicism why they ditched their former beliefs calling them “shallow “ in the process.
He called sinners, tax collectors, a zealot, fishermen, prostitutes, all the people that the religious people in their pride and arrogance, rejected.
The Pharisee and the Tax Collector
Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’
But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Matthew 23:1-36 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
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