Posted on 08/05/2014 7:44:42 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Good for her. We’ve been spending too much time and energy focusing on this particular flavor of sin, and especially arguing whether it’s innate or choice.
We are all born sinners. We all need Christ and His sacrifice to pay for our sins. And all Christians are called to obey the LORD. That’s exactly what’s happening here.
Notice that they don't condemn homosexual conduct in others, celebacy is just the right thing "for themselves." In other words, "don't judge" - the hallmark of Godless, anarchist deviants.
“Being homosexual” is about what you do, not about your desires.
Otherwise, we’d all be lying, thieving, murderous, covetous adulterers.”
Ain’t that the truth!
...
Given that she teaches that sodomy is against the God’s law, how, exactly, is she is “affirming others who do choose to act out their homosexual proclivities.”
I don't see where she teaches and affirms that it is against God's law. You have to read between the lines... in this case, the silences. Failing, within the context of the discussion of homosexuality, to somewhere condemn that act, the propensity, as a perversion of what God intended is as good as silence in the face of murder. It is tantamount to silent assent.
It would not surprise me one bit, once this new "accepting" mentality embeds itself further in her local church body, if she suddenly "comes out" again as a sexually active lesbian, and demands that her church "marry" her and her lover. And then she'll go to the geh press and give them her sob story of how the church she grew up in and accepted her is now denying her this "right," with the motive to incite hatred toward Christians. This is happening all the time now.
Please bear in mind that rash judgment, defamation, and bearing false witness against one's neighbor are still against the commandments.
"Notice that they don't condemn homosexual conduct in others, celibacy is just the right thing "for themselves."
False. The reason they are writing and speaking out is because they hope to be living examples of how people with same-sex attraction can live chastely and be disciples of Our Lord. They are trying to promote thinking, talking, and walking in purity of heart.
You find me one place where the celibacy-advocates cited in this article (Julie Rodgers, Vanessa Urquhart, Eve Tushnet, Gary Belgau or Rosaria Butterfield) has said what you allege -- that gay sex is OK but celibacy is just their own personal choice--- and then we'll have something factual to talk about.
We've talked a lot about "abstinence" on this thread. Please abstain from defamation.
RE: She feels an attraction towards members of her sex, but chooses to remain celibate.
I feel an attraction towards bourbon, but choose to remain sober.
____________________________
Hey, I’m married and still feel an attraction towards others of the opposite sex.
Rubbish. That's just as senseless as saying,
"Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality. (Check out the Gospels: He didn't.) Therefore we'll assume He was for it."
"St. Paul never spoke out against BDSM. Therefore we'll assume he was for it."
"FWDUDE never spoke out against sex-reassignment (transsexual) surgery. Therefore..."
To construe something from silence, especially when you cannot reference the whole collection of their recorded or written words, and can only draw dubious conclusions from the very few direct quotes this RNS interviewer has chosen to cite, does not show sound judgment.
IF Jesus had the occasion to discuss homosexuality and his apostles and biographers were moved to record it in the cannon, He would have condemned it.
IF Paul had been presented with the issue of sexual perversion of any particular brand, be assured that he would have condemned it in no uncertain terms.
This women, and the others spotlighted in this piece, are plopped down in the midst of this subject, and yet don’t condemn it, except for its practice “in themselves.” They want to be comfortable with it, in the words of the article, but don’t want to engage in the actions.
Who wants to be comfortable with sin?
Assuming you still live as husband and wife (to put it as discreetly as I can here) you aren’t celibate anymore. You are chaste, but not celibate.
I happen to think that discernment is one of my spiritual gifts, but even absent this gift, no one who is paying attention can fail to notice that the homosexual juggernaut, having almost completely overcome the state and societal notions of morality, has now focused its intent on the Church, the last bastion of resistance to this evil. It will "appear as and angel of light" even as it is plotting its evil plan to destroy.
Again, I'll implicate this woman in this disguised plot to infiltrate and cause division in the Body.
Well said, bro.
Galatians 5 is the answer to this and similar questions - live by the Holy Spirit, crucify the sinful desires - consider them dead, nailed to the cross.
As long as she continues to see herself as a lesbian, talks about it, associates with others that encourage it, temptation will increase and sin will manifest in her life. You cannot defeat sin in the flesh. She is taking a legal approach to restraining her sinful desires and not relying on God’s Grace. This is what Paul discusses in Romans 5-8. You cannot keep the law, because sin will simply increase, and the frustration of religious bondage will abound. Everyone needs a Savior to set them free.
Our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power over us. We are no longer slaves to sin. — see Romans 6:5-8
You are no longer controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if He is in you. And those that do not have the Spirit living in them are not Christians at all. — see Romans 8:1-11
God has provided a solution, victory over every sin. There is no such thing as a fornicating Christian, or a Christian thief, or a Christian drunk, or even a Christian lesbian. Those are oxymorons. A Christian has been set free from sin. They may be ignorant of their victory, but its there in God’s Word, waiting to be discovered and acted on - the Truth makes you free.
I could not agree more,
I came from a family of alcoholics and realized once in the Navy that I had just as addictive a problem as them and have since stayed away from all types of alcohol. If they stay away from sex, in celibacy, then they are actually doing what Paul strongly suggested.
But it takes a strong person with strong faith to walk that road, and they need our encouragement and support.
And all of us need to stop using the word “gay” when discussing a celibate Christian. Doesn’t help in the least.
There’s a difference between temptation and sin.
Temptation happens. We all experience it.
When we cross the line and engage and entertain it, then it becomes sin.
One of the problems is that homosexual leanings are evidence of some kind of serious spiritual issues. Now, once someone has been there, I can see that they are more susceptible to that temptation in the future.
However, when I see people claim they are *gay Christians*, there’s a bigger problem. If they focus on their sin as their source of identity, they are focusing on the wrong thing.
If they see themselves as Christians who struggle with homosexual temptation, that’s different.
I really wish they’d quit wearing the label of *gay* as a badge of honor.
Women do, too. Most of the time, they just won't admit it.
Look at the proliferation of *romance* novels and books like 50 Shades, and websites for those women looking to have an affair.
That's where the proof is.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
You simply can't construe vast, and especially morally defamatory conclusions, from "reading between the lines." This is not sound judgment. And you don't know whether what we have here is, for instance, Eve Tushnet's silence (she's one of the celibacy-advocates) or Sarah Poulliam Bailey's silence (she's the interviewer, the one who --- necessarily --- omitted 95% of what her interviewees said, and selected 5% for publication.)
Not that that's blameworthy on Bailey's part, either. That's the necessary reality of doing an article for publication. You have a focus. You stick to it. Otherwise you get out of journalism, because news services don't want an encyclopedic treatment of every topic, every time.
You're assumingn that Eve Tushnet, etc. are comfortable with sin, when they said nothing about these particular sexual sins, except that they abstain from them. They are celibate.
Hmm.... This thread is a context in which there's been a lot of discussion about celibacy, and yet you have not come out and endorsed it. Should we assume you're uncomfortable with celibacy?
I'm not charging you with that. That wouldn't be fair. I'm just asking.
This makes perfect sense.
Also, a gay man could marry a lesbian. It might make them both very happy.
It is a fine line. I do hope that when the term “acceptance” is used by these people they mean it as they “accept” their limitation, not by denying it exists but acknowledging it for what it is, that is, who they are and how their life must be.
They can never be married (to a person of the same sex) and ...
They have a weakness, a susceptibility to lust for members of the same gender.
Some have such a weakness to theft (kleptomaniacs). If they are smart they limit their exposure to easily stolen items.
Some have a weakness to booze. (Alcoholics). If they are smart, then they limit their exposure to alchohol.
Some have a weakness to (heterosexual) lust. If they are smart, they limit their exposure to images that can arouse them.
So hopefully these people are doing the same. They hopefully avoid circumstances where they are tempted to act on their weakness.
This is my hope after reading this. Because like another said we are all sinners and struggle with our own weaknesses. In that regard we’re no better than the homosexual who seeks to avoid temptation.
It’s all in how one choses to read stories like this. One can either interpret it as I have, with hope, or with cynicism.
Let me make it clear: I’m not saying either interpretation is “right”. It’s just how do you want to live life, at the end of the day really.
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