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To: NorthMountain

Nobody is free to exercise his religion when the state can show a compelling interest. That’s the Federal case law concerning the First Amendment, and it has been for many years. Clearly LA believes there is a compelling interest to requiring this testimony, or else like many other states, they would have a shield law. They don’t, so the priest will have to accept whatever penalty goes with the exercise of his religion in the face of a compelling interest.


11 posted on 07/08/2014 2:48:42 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: FredZarguna
The State can fabricate a "compelling interest" whenever it wants to.

"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.
-Benito Mussolini

Looks like that's where we're headed, with some "Christians" cheering the State every step of the way.

12 posted on 07/08/2014 2:52:02 PM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: FredZarguna
Compelling state interest is one of those so very cool statist terms that means “screw the Bill of Rights.”
19 posted on 07/08/2014 3:47:53 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V)
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To: FredZarguna; BlackElk
Nobody is free to exercise his religion when the state can show a compelling interest. That’s the Federal case law concerning the First Amendment, and it has been for many years.

Pinging for your learned input.

21 posted on 07/08/2014 4:15:03 PM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: FredZarguna
How long before there is a "compelling state interest" in doing anything necessary to prevent the "hate" that is any form of opposition to the LGBT agenda? How long before there is a "compelling state interest" in "saving" children from their "radical" parents by preventing the religious training of said children? How long before there is a "compelling state interest" in penalizing those who attend Church?

The thing about a "compelling state interest" is that unlike the Bill of Rights, it is based largely on current attitudes.

An attack on a long-protected Christian practice under the guise of a "compelling state interest" is indeed creeping socialism. We're on a slippery slope.

31 posted on 07/08/2014 5:23:23 PM PDT by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: FredZarguna; verga; W.Lee; Jacquerie; NYer; Rome2000; NorthMountain; Biggirl; Tax-chick
Fred Zarguna:

A compelling interest is any excuse however flimsy (I don't give bad judges on this stuff much slack after Roe vs. Wade and its evil progeny (you should pardon the expression) that judges concoct to amend, in effect, the constitution to align with their unconstitutional agendas.

You are suggesting in your posts that you have some expertise, unmentioned as to trial law and/or constitutional law and/or the law of evidence. If you claim such knowledge:

1. Do you concede that this case is about a 12-year-old girl (Let's call her Jane) who went to a local Catholic parish Church in the Diocese of Baton Rouge to receive the sacrament of Penance (for traditionalists) or of "reconciliation" for more modern folk but in terms so plain that even the Church's secularist or other enemies can understand (whether they are willing or not): Janie went to Church to confess her sins to a priest and to receive a penance and absolution and forgiveness of her sins?

2. Are you willing to concede that the appropriate authority of each religion protected by the First Amendment (and not some bunch of politicians/judges) makes or interprets or applies, as you may prefer, its own internal rules which, in this case, involve the absolute obligation of Fr. Bayhi to REFUSE to testify in any way as to ANY confession to him as a priest? If Fr. Bayhi violates that obligation and that seal, he is automatically excommunicated and, IIRC, only the pope himself has the authority to lift that excommunication, which seems unlikely in this or any similar case.

3. If Mr. Child Molester himself were to confess each and every such sin that he has ever committed to Father Bayhi, do you concede that, "Mandatory Reporter" law or none, the priest CANNOT be required by any judge sworn to uphold the Constitution to testify as to even the fact that Mr. Molester has confessed his sins, much less as to the detailed list of sins? If not, constitutional language modifying the First Amendment to that effect, please.

4. Assuming that you have some familiarity with actual law, what do you think the rule against the admission of HEARSAY evidence is and how it would apply to testifying as to Mr. Molester's confession, if any? Leaving aside altogether the vital and protected First Amendment protections that protect the priest, the Church and the penitent, the only way to get such testimony would be the "statement against interest" exception to the HEARSAY rule, yes? 5. Next, take the HEARSAY rule analysis to the next level. It is NOT Mr. Molestor who confessed, it was 12-year-old Jane and she is NOT the victim of the crimes, if any. Her words, claims, imaginings, nightmares or whatever must, at best, be HEARSAY gathered from, at best, the actual victims, if any, as the Germans might say: nicht wahr (is it not true?)? What exception(s) to the HEARSAY rule would you apply to sanitize the HEARSAY stink all over such testimony by the priest as to what 12-year-old Jane MAY have confessed as to the bad behavior of Mr. Molester which was not perpetrated on Jane or in her presence?

6. But it gets worse for you. Unless someone claims that Jane WITNESSED the bad behavior alleged against Mr. Molestor, then Jane is not a proper witness herself, much less through a similarly ignorant third party (the priest) being dragged in perhaps because of residual credibility of a Roman collar in a Baton Rouge courtroom. So now, the priest is being asked to testify SAY what he HEARD Jane SAY she HEARD another SAY (who may well have heard from still others, but never mind). Have you an exception to the HEARSAY rule to cover this ridiculous but quite possible scenario? I did not think so. Neither does the Louisiana Supreme Court unless it claims an unlikely clairvoyance which is not an exception.

7. Judges or no judges, do you have a specific constitutional provision (give me the words and the reference) that somehow, hundreds of years in advance allows the Supreme Court of Louisiana to apply a "compelling interest" to ignore the First Amendment. Yeah, me neither!

8. Every state has a shield law: The First Amendment of the US Bill of Rights and most have their own redundant state constitutional provisions. If the Fourteenth Amendment can be used to force states to allow the mass murder of babies or to allow Barry to marry Larry, it will probably also protect Fr. Bayhi and the Diocese of Baton Rouge in any court not poisoned by the evil agenda of secular humanists. Nicht wahr?

9. The Constitution of the United States says what it means and means what it says. Do you agree? If not, why not?

10. Scalia's decision in the peyote case was unfortunate in its failure to vindicate the First Amendment. We ought not to let such decisions abrogate the basic freedoms of this nation regardless of the roots of current low-info hysteria.

11. Our rights are easy to defend when their exercise is nice and non-controversial and socially approved. A case arising in WWII-era New Haven, CT, in which or its vicinity, I lived most of my life, involved a Jehovah Witness who was wandering door-to-door in a Catholic working class ethnic neighborhood ostensibly to convert folks to his faith. While I find the Jehovah Witness faith a strange one, I always treat their door-to-door missionaries politely and even represented some as an attorney. This guy, though, had a portable record player which derided the Blessed Virgin Mary's virginity and made many curious and offensive claims contrary to Catholic doctrine. He was arrested for inciting a riot but freed by the SCOTUS, IIRC. I always counseled Catholic clients that their own freedom of speech is only as strong as that of the Witnesses or of pro-aborts or of "gay" rights groups. To aggravate, we need to willingly accept aggravation.

12. Wanna concede?

44 posted on 07/08/2014 6:38:04 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em Danno!)
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