The Pope: We are Christians because we belong to the Church, "can't love God outside of the Church"

http://www.asianews.it ^ | June 25, 2014 | The Vatican

[NKP_Vet]

Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "We are not isolated and we are not Christians individually, each on his or her own". Instead, we are all part of the Church, "a large family, where one is welcomed," where "one learns to live as believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus," Pope Francis said.

Speaking in the last general audience before the July break, the Holy Father devoted his catechesis to the Church before a crowd of 35,000 in St Peter's Square. Despite a few drops of rain, he walked extensively among the assembled faithful.

In his address, he warned against those who "think they can have a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside of the communion and the mediation of the Church."

In the Church, he noted, there is no "do it yourself", no "free agents." For him, "Our Christian identity is belonging! We are Christians because we belong to the Church. It is like a surname. If the name is 'I am a Christian', the surname is 'I belong to the Church'." Such sense of belonging was born from the alliance between God and Abraham, to whom he donated a great people for his loyalty.

"God's relationship to his people comes before all of us, it comes from that time," and thus, "in this sense, our thoughts go first, with gratitude, to those who have gone before us and who welcomed us into the Church. No one becomes a Christian by himself! Is this clear? Nobody becomes a Christian by himself. Christians are not made in a lab.

[ealgeone]

Just because we honor worship the successor of St. Peter, the first Pope, does not mean that we don’t have faith in God. (Remember that Luther added the word ‘alone’ to the Bible.)

Can you show me the verses in the Bible where Luther "added" the word alone? Romans 3:28 is posted below with as many translations as I could find.

Luther's point is correct though. We are saved by faith and by faith alone. There is no work or deed we can do to earn our salvation. See Ephesians 2:8-9 and Hebrews 11 and the whole New Testament.

New International Version For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

New Living Translation So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

English Standard Version For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

New American Standard Bible For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

King James Bible Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Holman Christian Standard Bible For we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

International Standard Version For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the actions prescribed by the Law.

NET Bible For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English We determine therefore that by faith a man is made righteous and not by the works of The Written Law.

GOD'S WORD® Translation We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

Jubilee Bible 2000 Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

King James 2000 Bible Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

American King James Version Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

American Standard Version We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Douay-Rheims Bible For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.

Darby Bible Translation for we reckon that a man is justified by faith, without works of law.

English Revised Version We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Webster's Bible Translation Therefore we conclude, that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Weymouth New Testament For we maintain that it is as the result of faith that a man is held to be righteous, apart from actions done in obedience to Law.

World English Bible We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Young's Literal Translation therefore do we reckon a man to be declared righteous by faith, apart from works of law.

[A child of Yah]

hey “Gumdrop”
kool handle you got there, and it’s giving me a sweet tooth now ... smiles.

I just wanted to share a couple of things with you in regards to that “easter”.

I’m not much on mixing the “New Wine of our Lord”, with the old wineskin of the world.

There’s a lot of good information out there about this “easter” that most or some Christians have come to celebrate, and bottom line is, that it has nothing to do with Christ Jesus whatsoever, no matter how much of a “holy spin” we try to place upon it.

There is a passage of scripture that might shed just a glimmer of light upon it, and has to do with some peeps who had their backs to the temple of the LORD, and they were worshiping the “sun” aka “east star”. There was even some women baking cakes to the “queen of heaven”, and some women were also weeping for “tammuz”.

Our Lord wasn’t very pleased about all this and if you do some digging around it all you will see the connection to “easter”. Also, I trust in the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you as you do this research.

I’m not here to bash what you believe “Gumdrop”, but if I let things just slide by, I will be held accountable for not speaking up when I should.

Here’s just one passage:
Ezekiel 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, [were] about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshiped the sun toward the east.

[Hoodat]

Don't forget the Wycliffe Bible. It predated Luther by over a century.

For we deem a man to be justified by faith, without works of the law.

[Free Vulcan]

Which is an utter lie, blasphemy and heresy. The Roman Church was for centuries the minor church in Christendom. Until the Holy Roman Empire came to be essentially the territory of Rome was essentially filled with pagans, and Rome itself of questionable although ambitious influence.

Even after the rise of Islam, Constantinople was the center of Christendom, and before Rome was a minor player in the Christian part of the world, surrounded by pagan barbarians, while the bulk of Christendom ran from Constantinople, to Antioch, to Alexandria. It was only after the fall of the Byzantines that the Roman Church gained dominance.

The Coptics, Syriacs, and Orthodox in addition to Protestants are not in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Are they all heretics while the one branch is the true Church?

[Salvation]

It's in one of these links.

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

Catholic Word of the Day: BIBLE, 05-15-14
EARLY HISTORY OF THE BIBLE
The Bible & the Church

The Bible Reborn
Where We Got The Bible
Some Biblical Truths
The "Apocrypha": Why It's Part of the Bible
How to Read the Bible – A Three Step Plan (written for Catholics - valid for all)
Where Does the Bible Say We Should Pray to Dead Saints?
The Canon of Scripture [Ecumenical]
To understand Bible, one must understand its nature, pope says
Let the Bible be “entrusted” to the faithful
But Seriously — Who Holds the Bible’s Copyright?

Ignorance of Scripture is Ignorance of Christ
Apostolic Authority and the Selection of the Gospels (Ecumenical)
The Bible - 73 or 66 Books? (Ecumenical Thread)
How Rediscovering the “Plot” of Sacred Scripture is Essential to Evangelization
The Word of God is a Person Not Merely a Text
Are Catholics into the Bible?
Are the Gospels Historical?
What is Biblical Prophecy? What Biblical Prophecy is NOT, and What It Really IS
Biblical Illiteracy and Bible Babel
The Pilgrims' Regress - The Geneva Bible And The "Apocrypha"

The "Inconvenient Tale" of the Original King James Bible
The Bible - an absolutely amazing book
Christian Scriptures, Jewish Commentary
Essays for Lent: The Canon of Scripture
Essays for Lent: The Bible
1500 year-old ‘ Syriac ‘ Bible found in Ankara, Turkey
How we should read the Bible
St. Jerome and the Vulgate (completing the FIRST Bible in the year 404) [Catholic Caucus]
In Bible Times
Deuterocanonical References in the New Testament

Translations Before the King James: - The KJV Translators Speak!
EWTN Live - March 23 - A Journey Through the Bible
"Our Father's Plan" - EWTN series with Dr. Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins on the Bible timeline
The Daunting Journey From Faith to Faith [Anglicanism to Catholicism]
Reflections on the Soon to Be Released New American Bible (Revised Edition)[Catholic Caucus]
New American Bible changes some words such as "holocaust"
Is the Bible the Only Revelation from God? (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)
History of the Bible (caution: long)
Catholic and Protestant Bibles
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: ON READING THE BIBLE [Catholic Caucus]

Because I Love the Bible
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
When Was the Bible Really Written?
Three Reasons for Teaching the Bible [St. Thomas Aquinas]
The Smiting Is Still Implied (God of the OT vs the NT)
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
Friday Fast Fact: The Bible in English
Bible Reading is Central in Conversions to Catholicism in Shangai, Reports Organization
Verses (in Scripture) I Never Saw
5 Myths about 7 Books

Lectionary Statistics - How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? (Popquiz!)
Pope calls Catholics to daily meditation on the Bible
What Are the "Apocrypha?"
The Accuracy of Scripture
US Conference of Catholic Bishops recommendations for Bible study
CNA unveils resource to help Catholics understand the Scriptures
The Dos and Don’ts of Reading the Bible [Ecumenical]
Pope to lead marathon Bible reading on Italian TV
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Books of the Catholic Bible: The Complete Scriptures [Ecumenical]

Beginning Catholic: When Was The Bible Written? [Ecumenical]
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
U.S. among most Bible-literate nations: poll
Bible Lovers Not Defined by Denomination, Politics
Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)
Vatican Offers Rich Online Source of Bible Commentary
Clergy Congregation Takes Bible Online
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: Mary's Last Words
A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds
Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?
Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?
Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)
Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible
Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible
How Tradition Gave Us the Bible
The Church or the Bible

[ealgeone]

“That’s a fact. And a pagan one at that.” Name for me all the pagan cults you know who believe in the following: The Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all Divine Persons. These divine Persons are the only deity in the universe. There are no other gods. Second Person of the Trinity took on flesh and walked the earth as a man, born of virgin Jewish girl named Mary, just so He could suffer, die on a cross, and be resurrected for our salvation. Put up or shut up.

You know...if you stopped there you'd be ok. However, the Roman catholic church goes further with it's teachings and that's where it becomes a cult.

When you teach the following you achieve cult status:

1)worshipping/praying to Mary and that she was sinless in direct contradiction of scripture which says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...you're a cult

2)Mary plays a role in our salvation

3)when you declare you have to believe BOTH scripture and tradition

4)when you teach that only a priest can explain the Scriptures

5)when you teach it's ok to have relics, statues of saints, mary, etc,

6)when you assign to mary titles such as co-redemtrix and mediatrix and mediatrix of all graces...you're a cult.

7) when you teach that as no man goes to the Father but through Christ, so no man goes to Christ but by His mother, you're a cult. The first part of this is ok. It's the second part that's cult territory.

8) when you teach that Mary did not lay aside her salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation....you're a cult.

and we haven't even talked about indulgences, penance, having to confess to a priest, etc.

Hey...this could be a Jeff Foxworthy routine.

The burden is on the Roman Catholic Church to show sound Biblical support for these false teachings....which they cannot. Without having tradition to appeal to, these false teachings cannot be justified by reading the Word and keeping the text in context.

[ealgeone]

>Catholics wrote the Bible, and canonized the Bible. The Catholic Curch came before the NT. Without the Catholic Church you would have never heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church brought the Word of God to all believers.<

gracious...not this again.

[ealgeone]

is this picture really all you’ve got??

[Last Dakotan]

Proverbs 16:18 is about pride in and of yourself, not to be confused with being proud in (unable to deny) your faith in Christ Jesus.

[ealgeone]

Nope...not looking those up. I want you to show me a translation in use today that uses the phrase "faith alone" in Romans 3:28. Post it.

How ironic you post a quote from the very man you and all catholics seem to dispise. So which is it? Is Luther right or wrong? You can't have it both ways.

The principle of faith alone is very Biblical...in fact it is the only way to have a relationship with Christ...by faith.

We can't be good enough to earn our way into Heaven or keep our way into Heaven. As noted in Eph 2:8-9...it is a gift of God...not as result of works, lest anyone should boast.

[ealgeone]

>Don't forget the Wycliffe Bible. It predated Luther by over a century. For we deem a man to be justified by faith, without works of the law.<

thanks!

[dsc]

You know, your note #4 was not a discussion of theological differences.

It was calumny. It was detraction, and the reality does not justify it.

You call yourself a Christian, and yet treat your fellow Christians like that.

For shame.

[dsc]

“This dogma is one of the reasons why I am not a Roman Catholic.”

When you lack a faith community, it is very easy to drift in odd directions.

[Hoodat]

Catholics wrote the Bible, and canonized the Bible.

Actually, it was a bunch of Jews who wrote the Bible.

[Usagi_yo]

I’m Lutheran. The Pope is just a politician to me, so I feel comfortable criticizing him .. particularly and exclusively in the political/economic realm of things.

It seems that God has abandoned the Catholic church to itself.

[Usagi_yo]

It’s right next to the Psalm of Obama’s infallibility.

[Usagi_yo]

Over citing is a sign of weakness and deceit. Try again, this time just give us the relevant link.

[Usagi_yo]

I think there is an extra ‘a’ in mediation, because church mediation is laughable — particularly Catholic.

[trebb]

Hopefully he didn't mean what it seems like he may have said. Jesus developed a one-on-one personal relationship. No religion owns the concession rights to that relationship.

If anything, we become members of His Church (not some man-made religious organization) because we choose to be Christians - it doesn't work the other way around.

[CTrent1564]

The Bible came after the Church and the NT Canon was not formally set until the 4th Century. That is an Historical fact despite what the local Pastor Bubbba Bob told you at the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or whatever fundamentalist sect you belong to.