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To: vladimir998
“That’s a fact. And a pagan one at that.” Name for me all the pagan cults you know who believe in the following: The Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all Divine Persons. These divine Persons are the only deity in the universe. There are no other gods. Second Person of the Trinity took on flesh and walked the earth as a man, born of virgin Jewish girl named Mary, just so He could suffer, die on a cross, and be resurrected for our salvation. Put up or shut up.

You know...if you stopped there you'd be ok. However, the Roman catholic church goes further with it's teachings and that's where it becomes a cult.

When you teach the following you achieve cult status:

1)worshipping/praying to Mary and that she was sinless in direct contradiction of scripture which says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...you're a cult

2)Mary plays a role in our salvation

3)when you declare you have to believe BOTH scripture and tradition

4)when you teach that only a priest can explain the Scriptures

5)when you teach it's ok to have relics, statues of saints, mary, etc,

6)when you assign to mary titles such as co-redemtrix and mediatrix and mediatrix of all graces...you're a cult.

7) when you teach that as no man goes to the Father but through Christ, so no man goes to Christ but by His mother, you're a cult. The first part of this is ok. It's the second part that's cult territory.

8) when you teach that Mary did not lay aside her salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation....you're a cult.

and we haven't even talked about indulgences, penance, having to confess to a priest, etc.

Hey...this could be a Jeff Foxworthy routine.

The burden is on the Roman Catholic Church to show sound Biblical support for these false teachings....which they cannot. Without having tradition to appeal to, these false teachings cannot be justified by reading the Word and keeping the text in context.

126 posted on 07/03/2014 8:55:58 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: ealgeone

ealgeone:

No the burden is on you protestants to show what is correct. Now again, worshiping Mary is a falsehood that comes from bible thumpers and fundamentalist. Nobody worships Mary, she is venerated and honored yes. Mary did play a unique role in Salvation history, she was the person God chose for Christ to become “incarnate” which means the blood he shared was her blood for God in his Divine Nature, is pure spirit and thus does not have blood. So the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity became incarnate of the Virgin Mary and thus the Divine and Human natures of the Divine Person, CHrist, was incarnate and born of the Virgin Mary. So yes, she did have a singular and unique role in ‘salvation history”

As for Scripture and Tradition, where does it say not to believe both of them. The orthodox Church Fathers all held to Apostolic Tradition of which both sacred scripture and tradition flowed from. None held to a “sola scriptura” the way post 16th century Protestantism holds. The novelty is on you all, not the Catholic, nor the Orthodox Church, who holds the same views as Rome on Scripture and Tradition.

As for the Church as the final teacher of matters and faith. Did the Apostles subject their teachings to the public. Every man and their Bible for themselves is “chaos” and each man setting their own doctrine is not supported by the Apostles. Again, this elevation of the “priesthood of all believers” to mean each man or woman gets to read the bible and determine correct doctrine is exactly why Protestant Christianity at the “Doctrinal level/Institutional level” is a bunch of “split p’s”

As for relics, icons, statues, the converse is true, as the 2nd Council of Nicea in 787AD stated, those who reject icons, sacred art etc are heretics and in fact, the rejection of such things is contradiction to the reality of the Incarnation of Christ.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum07.htm

Mary does intercede for us in heaven, as do all the Angels in Saints. Since Christ was incarnate of Mary, she again did participate in a unique way the salvation history and yes, she, as all the angels and saints continue to pray for the members of the Church here on earth.

As the Apostles Creed states, I believe in the “communion of saints”...

And finally, this use of the word Cult is really nonsense. The cults are more of these local protestant churches run by the likes of Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc, who of course, thought they were enlightened to read the scriptures and come up with what “Revelation” truly means, etc. And lets not get into that Kansas Westboro Baptist Church. Of course, all sola scriptura protestants “of course, wink, wink”


141 posted on 07/04/2014 4:33:29 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: ealgeone

you wrote:

“When you teach the following you achieve cult status:”

None of the things you list have anything to do with “cult status”:

“1)worshipping/praying to Mary and that she was sinless in direct contradiction of scripture which says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...you’re a cult”

Mary is not worshipped. Asking for her intercession is not the hallmark of a cult. Also, her sinlessness is not in contradiction of scripture (we understand the hyperbole in St. Paul’s writings). Since her sinlessness is from Christ it has nothing to do with a cult.

“2)Mary plays a role in our salvation”

Made clear by scripture. She too would be pierced after all. All she did was be of service and remains so.

“3)when you declare you have to believe BOTH scripture and tradition”

St. Paul said as much.

“4)when you teach that only a priest can explain the Scriptures”

That is not a Catholic teaching. The teaching is that the Church and her tradition explain scripture. If you’re going to attack Catholic beliefs wouldn’t help if you actually knew what those beliefs are? Otherwise you sound like a mindless cult member lashing out blindly.

“5)when you teach it’s ok to have relics, statues of saints, mary, etc,”

They are okay. Next!

“6)when you assign to mary titles such as co-redemtrix and mediatrix and mediatrix of all graces...you’re a cult.”

No, you’re merely awarding titles that reflect how she served God. As St. Bernard said, ‘Let us not imagine that we obscure the glory of the Son by the great praise we lavish on the Mother; for the more she is honored, the greater is the glory of her Son.’ ‘There can be no doubt,’ said Bernard, ‘that whatever we say in praise of the Mother is equally in praise of the Son’ (Hom. iv. sup. Miss.).

“7) when you teach that as no man goes to the Father but through Christ, so no man goes to Christ but by His mother, you’re a cult. The first part of this is ok. It’s the second part that’s cult territory.”

Once again you invent a teaching that doesn’t actually exist and try to pass it off as a Catholic teaching.

8) when you teach that Mary did not lay aside her salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation....you’re a cult.

Mary always remained true to her Son. She will always intercede for us. There’s nothing cult like about that or a belief in it.

“and we haven’t even talked about indulgences, penance, having to confess to a priest, etc.”

None of those things is cult like either. Confession to a priest is right out of John 20:19-23.

“Hey...this could be a Jeff Foxworthy routine.”

Only you’re the butt of the joke.

“The burden is on the Roman Catholic Church to show sound Biblical support for these false teachings....”

No. Since the Protestant sects came more than 1400 years later than Catholics it is the burden of those sects to prove that Catholic beliefs are false to begin with.

“which they cannot. Without having tradition to appeal to, these false teachings cannot be justified by reading the Word and keeping the text in context.”

That’s a false claim. Take for instance confession. It’s right there in John 20:19-23.

Protestants sects created cults.


142 posted on 07/04/2014 5:56:34 AM PDT by vladimir998
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