Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: ealgeone

you wrote:

“When you teach the following you achieve cult status:”

None of the things you list have anything to do with “cult status”:

“1)worshipping/praying to Mary and that she was sinless in direct contradiction of scripture which says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...you’re a cult”

Mary is not worshipped. Asking for her intercession is not the hallmark of a cult. Also, her sinlessness is not in contradiction of scripture (we understand the hyperbole in St. Paul’s writings). Since her sinlessness is from Christ it has nothing to do with a cult.

“2)Mary plays a role in our salvation”

Made clear by scripture. She too would be pierced after all. All she did was be of service and remains so.

“3)when you declare you have to believe BOTH scripture and tradition”

St. Paul said as much.

“4)when you teach that only a priest can explain the Scriptures”

That is not a Catholic teaching. The teaching is that the Church and her tradition explain scripture. If you’re going to attack Catholic beliefs wouldn’t help if you actually knew what those beliefs are? Otherwise you sound like a mindless cult member lashing out blindly.

“5)when you teach it’s ok to have relics, statues of saints, mary, etc,”

They are okay. Next!

“6)when you assign to mary titles such as co-redemtrix and mediatrix and mediatrix of all graces...you’re a cult.”

No, you’re merely awarding titles that reflect how she served God. As St. Bernard said, ‘Let us not imagine that we obscure the glory of the Son by the great praise we lavish on the Mother; for the more she is honored, the greater is the glory of her Son.’ ‘There can be no doubt,’ said Bernard, ‘that whatever we say in praise of the Mother is equally in praise of the Son’ (Hom. iv. sup. Miss.).

“7) when you teach that as no man goes to the Father but through Christ, so no man goes to Christ but by His mother, you’re a cult. The first part of this is ok. It’s the second part that’s cult territory.”

Once again you invent a teaching that doesn’t actually exist and try to pass it off as a Catholic teaching.

8) when you teach that Mary did not lay aside her salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation....you’re a cult.

Mary always remained true to her Son. She will always intercede for us. There’s nothing cult like about that or a belief in it.

“and we haven’t even talked about indulgences, penance, having to confess to a priest, etc.”

None of those things is cult like either. Confession to a priest is right out of John 20:19-23.

“Hey...this could be a Jeff Foxworthy routine.”

Only you’re the butt of the joke.

“The burden is on the Roman Catholic Church to show sound Biblical support for these false teachings....”

No. Since the Protestant sects came more than 1400 years later than Catholics it is the burden of those sects to prove that Catholic beliefs are false to begin with.

“which they cannot. Without having tradition to appeal to, these false teachings cannot be justified by reading the Word and keeping the text in context.”

That’s a false claim. Take for instance confession. It’s right there in John 20:19-23.

Protestants sects created cults.


142 posted on 07/04/2014 5:56:34 AM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies ]


To: vladimir998
you wrote: >“When you teach the following you achieve cult status:”< None of the things you list have anything to do with “cult status”:

“1)worshipping/praying to Mary and that she was sinless in direct contradiction of scripture which says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...you’re a cult”

Mary is not worshipped. Asking for her intercession is not the hallmark of a cult. Also, her sinlessness is not in contradiction of scripture (we understand the hyperbole in St. Paul’s writings). Since her sinlessness is from Christ it has nothing to do with a cult.

when you're own your knees before someone, it's worship. btw...that's a catholic priest in the photo in his knees before a statue of Mary.

>“2)Mary plays a role in our salvation”< Made clear by scripture. She too would be pierced after all. All she did was be of service and remains so.

She was pierced as any mom would be by the death of their son. Mary did not hang and die on the cross for us. Only Christ can save us.

>“3)when you declare you have to believe BOTH scripture and tradition”< St. Paul said as much.

Where? Need the verse.

“4)when you teach that only a priest can explain the Scriptures” That is not a Catholic teaching. The teaching is that the Church and her tradition explain scripture. If you’re going to attack Catholic beliefs wouldn’t help if you actually knew what those beliefs are? Otherwise you sound like a mindless cult member lashing out blindly.

CCC 939, "Helped by the priests, their co-workers, and by the deacons, the bishops have the duty of authentically teaching the faith, celebrating divine worship, above all the Eucharist, and guiding their Churches as true pastors. Their responsibility also includes concern for all the Churches, with and under the Pope.“

CCC 883, "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff.“

however, the Bible notes the following:

Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

>“5)when you teach it’s ok to have relics, statues of saints, mary, etc,”< They are okay. Next!

Exodus 20:4 would disagree with you, but you hang onto the council of nicea instead.

>“6)when you assign to mary titles such as co-redemtrix and mediatrix and mediatrix of all graces...you’re a cult.”< No, you’re merely awarding titles that reflect how she served God.

I'm not calling her those things....the RCC is.

Mediatrix of All Graces is a special Marian title that some Roman Catholics give to the Blessed Virgin Mary as the mother of Jesus Christ, encompassing the belief that all the graces and blessings that her son gives come through her.

This attributes to her a role more extensive than the role of mediation or intercession attributed to her.

The RCC isn't ready to declare this as dogma....yet.

>“7) when you teach that as no man goes to the Father but through Christ, so no man goes to Christ but by His mother, you’re a cult. The first part of this is ok. It’s the second part that’s cult territory.”<

Once again you invent a teaching that doesn’t actually exist and try to pass it off as a Catholic teaching.

"Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ. Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother." (Vatican Website:  Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914)

>8) when you teach that Mary did not lay aside her salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation....you’re a cult.<

Mary always remained true to her Son. She will always intercede for us. There’s nothing cult like about that or a belief in it.

That's the best you've got on this one? Really? Again, non-biblical and cultish all at the same time.

>“and we haven’t even talked about indulgences, penance, having to confess to a priest, etc.”<

None of those things is cult like either. Confession to a priest is right out of John 20:19-23.

says nothing about people having to come to Peter and ask for forgiveness.

>“Hey...this could be a Jeff Foxworthy r

outine.”<

Only you’re the butt of the joke.

can't even come up with your own material!

>“The burden is on the Roman Catholic Church to show sound Biblical support for these false teachings....”<

No. Since the Protestant sects came more than 1400 years later than Catholics it is the burden of those sects to prove that Catholic beliefs are false to begin with.

length of time in error of the RCC is nothing to brag about. false teaching has been around as early as Genesis 3....so I wouldn't brag about being in error for 1400 years.

>“which they cannot. Without having tradition to appeal to, these false teachings cannot be justified by reading the Word and keeping the text in context.”<

That’s a false claim. Take for instance confession. It’s right there in John 20:19-23.

Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For Sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit, while sacred tradition takes the word of God entrusted by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit to the Apostles, and hands it on to their successors in its full purity, so that led by the light of the Spirit of truth, they may in proclaiming it preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from Sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed.

Therefore both sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of loyalty and reverence.

Source: Dei Verbum, Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Second Vatican Council 11-18-1965

nope...says nothing about confession, penance, indulgences, etc in John 20:19-23. Read the verse in the context of the NT and understand how sins are forgiven...hint...it's through the message of the Gospel Peter and the boys were preaching.

Protestants sects created cults.

Hey...this was fun.

160 posted on 07/04/2014 12:54:50 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson