Posted on 06/26/2014 11:27:30 AM PDT by Colofornian
Mass confusion is still extant pertaining to three key Christian words -- each related to "ministry" and those who serve God:
"priesthood"
"saints"
"ordination"
Each of these words have, unfortunately, been largely skewed by the historical Church: The first two by Roman Catholicism; the latter by Protestantism.
'Holy Priesthood...Royal Priesthood'
No New Testament-based Church can neglect 1 Peter 2:4-9 and Revelation 1:5-6 plus Revelation 5:10 in its definition of "priesthood."
In 1 Peter 2, the "holy priesthood" (verse 5) and the "royal priesthood" (verse 9) are described as a privilege presented to those who...
...come to Christ (verse 4);
...are chosen by God (verse 4);
...are precious to God (verse 4);
...make up God's "spiritual household" (verse 5);
...are God's "people" (verse 9);
...are a "holy nation" (verse 9);
...are God's "special possession" (verse 9);
..."declare the praises of" God (verse 9)
Here are the specific verses cited in context:
4 As YOU come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 YOU also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”[d] They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9 But YOU are a chosen PEOPLE, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a HOLY NATION, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a PEOPLE, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
The obvious questions then arise when reading these passages: Do only males...
...come to Christ?
...become objects of His chosen ones?
...become valued as "precious" by God?
...become His "special possession"?
...declare God's praises?
And exactly what kind of a "spiritual household" would such a "household" be if it excluded females?
Is Peter's reference to God's people in verse 9 gender-restricted? What kind of a "people" would that be?
What is a "holy nation" that is gender-homogenous?
Or what is a "kingdom" that constitutes males only? (see Revelation 1:5-6 and Revelation 5:10 for context)
Is 'Ministry' -- a word that simply means 'Service' -- best reflected within a hierarchical structure? Or, rather, as Christ Himself served, being a bond-servant of Him?
In the New American Standard Bible, which strives more toward a fairly literal translation...
...Peter referenced Himself as a "bond-servant" of Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:1).
So did James (James 1:1).
So did Jude (Jude 1).
So did Paul (Titus 1:1; 2 Cor. 4:5, etc.), who also included Timothy in that description (Phil. 1:1).
Paul also labeled Epaphras (Col. 1:7) and Tychicus (Col. 4:7) as such.
And the apostle John uses the phrase nine times in the book of Revelation (1:1; 2:20; 7:3; 11:18; 15:3; 19:2,5; 22:3,6).
Finally, Paul even describes Jesus Himself as a "bondservant" (Phil. 2:7)!
What is a "bond-servant?" Well, the New American Standard version also highlighted its more literal usage: A bond-servant of Jesus Christ is simply a bondslave of Jesus Christ (see Col. 4:12 re Epaphras reference; Titus 2:9; 1 Peter 2:16)
At the time the apostle Paul wrote his letter to those in Christ at Rome, about one-third of the Roman world was slaves...bond-servants.
And it's no coincidence that Peter references "bondservant" just seven verses (1 Pet. 2:16) after his "royal priesthood" reference (v. 9): Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God."
You see, the common notion of "priesthood" has been historically skewed by layers of ecclesiastical bureaucracy. The "priesthood" isn't "one-upsmanship" in terms of service. The very words "ministry" and "service" is what is provided by the Bondslaves operating from a spiritual posture on their knees; not ecclesiastical "magistrates" administratively "lording" it over others.
This is why both the feminist rebellion verses a Biblical understanding of spiritual submission within the Church at-large
-- along with the historical notions to place both "priesthood" and "ministry" as "higher levels"
... via the decidely unbiblical notion of "ordination" --
...have both run off-base courses.
NOTE: "Clergy"-"Laity" distinctions in the ways they've come to be interpreted within Protestantism and other church traditions are extrabiblical traditions; "ordination" is merely a biblical word tied to the decrees of God but has no verse-by-verse Biblical underpinnings re: "THE ministry."
Being a bond-servant -- a bondslave -- is submission; is servanthood.
Sainthood
Likewise, the vocabulary of "Sainthood" also suffered within history and unto modern times in much the same way as "priesthood" and "the ministry"...reducing these levels to the "very few" and "spiritually elite." (NOTE: Satan has always desired to reduce his battle to a mere few)
"Saints" simply literally means "holy ones" -- those set apart to serve our Lord. In other words, ALL of us who are in Christ. We are ALL set apart for holy service, bearing the Holy Spirit within each of us.
When the apostle Paul referenced the church in greetings and other references, he highlighted ALL of them as "saints":
"but now, I am going to Jerusalem serving the saints." (Romans 15:25)
"For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem." (Romans 15:26)
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 1:1)
"To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father." (Col. 1:2)
"But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;" (Eph. 5:3)
'Ordained' or 'Ordination' for Ministry
In the New Testament, you'll find the Greek word for "ordained" twice...and both are applied to the Law of God...not to special leadership capacities. "Ordination" as a word isn't otherwise in the New Testament.
Landing Point: The Reformation and 'Priesthood of All Believers'
Allow me to quote from Wikipedia: Universal Priesthood (doctrine):
"While Martin Luther did not use the exact phrase 'priesthood of all believers", he adduces a general priesthood in Christendom in his 1520 To the Christian Nobility of the German Nation in order to dismiss the medieval view that Christians in the present life were to be divided into two classes: 'spiritual' and 'secular'. He put forward the doctrine that all baptized Christians are 'priests' and 'spiritual' in the sight of God:
"That the pope or bishop anoints, makes tonsures, ordains, consecrates, or dresses differently from the laity, may make a hypocrite or an idolatrous oil-painted icon, but it in no way makes a Christian or spiritual human being. In fact, we are all consecrated priests through Baptism, as St. Peter in 1 Peter 2[:9] says, "You are a royal priesthood and a priestly kingdom," and Revelation [5:10], "Through your blood you have made us into priests and kings.'"
Two months later Luther would write in his On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church (1520):
How then if they are forced to admit that we are all equally priests, as many of us as are baptized, and by this way we truly are; while to them is committed only the Ministry (ministerium Predigtamt) and consented to by us (nostro consensu)? If they recognize this they would know that they have no right to exercise power over us (ius imperii, in what has not been committed to them) except insofar as we may have granted it to them, for thus it says in 1 Peter 2, "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a priestly kingdom.' In this way we are all priests, as many of us as are Christians. There are indeed priests whom we call ministers. They are chosen from among us, and who do everything in our name. That is a priesthood which is nothing else than the Ministry. Thus 1 Corinthians 4:1: 'No one should regard us as anything else than ministers of Christ and dispensers of the mysteries of God.'"
Other Notable Biblical Considerations
1 The apostle Paul listed spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12-14, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4. They are not gender-specific. Thus, ministry is carried on by the Holy Spirit operating thru both men and women operating as the Laos (Greek for laity) -- the "people" of God.
2 In the New Testament, we find female prophetesses in Luke 2:36 (Anna) & Acts 21:8-9 (evangelist Philip's four daughters). In some current religious cultures -- like the Mormon Church -- Philip and his four daughters might frankly be ex-communicated in a such a sub-culture! Faith investigators may want to be careful in "faulting" the Holy Spirit for giving this gift to females in those circumstances, or other spiritual gifts that the apostle Paul highlighted in numerous New Testament passages.
3 Israel was quite comfortable with Deborah serving as a Judge-leader; and an entire Old Testament book (and ensuing Purim recognition amongst Jewish believers) is devoted to Esther serving as an intercessor where no man had the inroad (or seeming courage) to proceed?
First things first.
I'm not here to be interviewed.
No questions. I'm not here to be "inspected" or to face your own version of Inquisition.
I was writing to you to show you how what you have been doing here, doesn't work.
If you want any answers out of me -- you have to deal with what I'm telling you -- first.
Simple; then don't write to me, and I will not respond to you.
I will not be silenced.
Not by you.
Now that that is out of the way, are you going to deal with how you put words in another's mouth -- or not?
Usually; I do NOT lay the eggs; I merely color them.
This time; I just tossed the eggs onto the ground, and the egg suckers went to work.
???
I still love ya, AF.
I'll respond to your stuff, even if you don't write back.
Your post 16 is on this thread.
This time; I just tossed the eggs onto the ground, and the egg suckers went to work.
I tried to warn them, but it was off to the races. With scissors in their hands?
Edward had an excuse. It was just a movie?
Ya just GOTTA keep the threads straight when you are replying!
Of course I interpreted it. If I quote him directly I'll indicate so. afsnco post 12, Elsie post 16, clear as day; He clearly rejected the authority of the apostle Paul in this matter, and the clear teaching of the holy catholic apostolic church for almost two millenia, to uphold the doctrine of the Wesleyan Church.
Are you saying that one or both of them are lying?
HMMMmmm...
What did I type?
Your parser ring broken?
Your parser ring broken?
I am parsing nothing, I asked a question and you have yet to answer it. Here is what I asked: Just so I am clear: Are you saying that one or both of them are lying?
Simple question. Either A) Colton did see Mary in heaven and his father wrote the truth, which makes you mistaken/ in error. Or B) one or both of them is lying and you are correct.
So which is it? Are they telling the truth and you are wrong or are you correct and at least one of them is a liar?
We have all seen you make the statement that "Mary is dead." repeatedly. Now there is someone of your own faith, and ordained minister no less contradicting you. We have all seen the patented smarmy wise acre answer, now give us the straight answer with our dodging, like you usually do.
LOL! I don’t even know what it said.
But I forgive him for whatever it was.
“It’s in the catechism. All someone has to do is read it.
Then it is impossible for someone to be poorly ‘catechized’.
Everything NEEDED is in the bible.
All someone has to do is read it”.
Then you need to get away from your Jimmy Swaggart Expositor Study Bible or any of the other thousands and thousands of study guides on the market to help protestants understand the Bible.
Only two choices?
i do???
Yes: There are only two, please quit dodging.
Simple question. Either A) Colton did see Mary in heaven and his father wrote the truth, which makes you mistaken/ in error. Or B) one or both of them is lying and you are correct.
Is Colton going to hell for engaging in necromancy. We know that he spoke to his unborn sister and the woman's dead Marine son. IIRC he also spoke to his great grand father that Todd was never sure was "saved" until Colton told him he was in heaven.
So how about it big guy. Is this kid going to hell for speaking to the dead? We know for a fact he claims to have spoken to a minimum of four "dead" people (Yeah I am going to count Mary). And if it is okay for him to do this, how is it different from Catholics and the Saints?
Since I’m always correct, it has to be B.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.