Posted on 06/24/2014 9:00:51 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Malaysia's highest court on Monday rejected a challenge to a ban that in effect prohibits non-Muslims from referring to God as Allah. That ban has been in place since 2007 and, despite a series of appeals by the Catholic Church, will now remain.
Malay-speaking Chrisians have long used the word "Allah" to signify God; the word entered the Malay language in the medieval era with the arrival of Arabic-speaking merchants. But in Malaysia's complex, fragmented social landscape, historic realities often rub up against modern politics. Malaysian authorities pursuing the case say that Christian usage of the term presents a dangerous blurring of lines.
An umbrella group of Christian denominations in the country claims that the ruling only applies to the Herald, a Catholic weekly newspaper originally involved in the legal proceedings, and that they will continue invoking Allah in their religious activities. But that is little comfort to some. "[The ruling] will confine the freedom of worship," said the Rev. Lawrence Andrew, the editor of the Herald. "We are a minority in this country, and when our rights are curtailed, people feel it."
Malaysia styles itself as a kind of Asian crossroads, its multi-ethnic, multi-faith population of Malays, Chinese and Indians an embodiment of the wider continent. But the controversy over the case reflects the longstanding tensions between the country's majority Muslim population and its religious minorities.
In 2009, after Christians briefly won an appeal challenging the ban (that was later overturned), a number of churches in various parts of the country were firebombed and vandalized.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
smiles and says ... HalleluYaH - Praise YaH
RE: “Allah”is not one of the Names of God. There is no god named Allah.
OK, what is the appropriate Arabic name to call the true God?
RE: The name above all names...”JESUS”. As there is no other name whereby man can be saved....which is the heart of the Gospel Message.
OK, let’s see how this will work. How do you translate the Hebrew Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), as quoted by Jesus to Arabic?
“4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.”
You can’t use JESUS in that verse without being inaccurate.
You fell for it.
RE: You fell for it.
I don’t understand what you mean by “fell for it”.
I’m not trapping anyone. I want ACCURACY for the sake of sharing the gospel.
Then the simple answer is that when you “evangelize” you teach the new word for Allah explaining why they should not use the word Allah anymore (ie. the fact that it is used by the false, diabolical religion of Islam to represent their false god) and proceed to use this new word (whatever it is). I’m sure this is not the first time translations have caused problems in evangelizing.
RE: Then the simple answer is that when you “evangelize” you teach the new word for Allah explaining why they should not use the word Allah anymore
I already abided by your presumption in a previous post. The question is WHAT is that New Word?
It obviously has to be the word Arabs have used to refer to God PRIOR to Muhammad’s introducing Islam. If it isn’t ‘Allah’ What is it then?
Why does it HAVE to be that specific word?
RE: Why does it HAVE to be that specific word?
First, I want an answer — do you know what Christians and Jews called God in Arabic prior to Islam?
No, I don’t. But it sounds like it was the word Allah or something similar.
If so, what’s wrong with using a word that has been used for thousands of years?
And was right. I pegged the reason for your questioning.
I’m done with you.
hey again “Seek”
your question: WHAT NAME SHOULD CHRISTIANS USE WHEN THEY EVANGELIZE?
************
good question ... if it was me having to do it in other peoples languages I would probably start with “Father”, because He is our Heavenly Father who sent His Holy Son to reconcile us to Him.
Then I would go on from there with how much our Heavenly Father loved us so much that He stretched out His arm to set the captives free, and that arm came through Christ Jesus, and He is the only way to the Father for He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No other way, or any other name can reconcile us to Him.
We are no longer prisoners, or slaves to this world as we have come to know it, for the Truth has set us free, and we are His children and He loves us all dearly.
But you know what?
I have this feeling, that as many that have come before teaching and preaching the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus/Yahushua ha Mashiach to others ... that they will try to incorporate and compromise that gospel message by putting that “New Wine of our Lord”, into that old wineskin of the world.
Which is blending pagan ways with Christian ways.
Compromising the faith to the point of contradicting the faith, just to be all inclusive as not to offend and draw more people in.
I kind of call it putting a holy spin on that which is unholy and profane just so others can say, hey, they are just like us, let’s go hang out together.
Kind of reminds me of “Chris-lam”. Going along just to get along. Merging and blending it all up together that it just makes you sick to your stomach just to hear about it, let alone drink from its cup.
... yea ... I went off on a tangent.
I’m tired and I’m hungry and I’m very disappointed in those who claim to be “leading the flock” every time that I get on the internet. It’s sickening, and disgusting that half the crap I read about now is how some other religious group just ok’d homosexuality, or some clergy just got busted doing the nasty with some little kid, and Christians can’t speak up or out because we are judging others and nobody’s perfect so let us just all put a cork in it and call it a day while sin runs roughshod over all of us.
wow ... I think I feel a little better now ... smiles
The name above all names...”JESUS”. As there is no other name whereby man can be saved....which is the heart of the Gospel Message.
************
Amen
it’s me again “Seek”
after this one ... I’m going to go eat ... so here goes.
This was your question to someone else:
OK, let’s see how this will work. How do you translate the Hebrew Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), as quoted by Jesus to Arabic?
“4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.”
You can’t use JESUS in that verse without being inaccurate.
************
Go to the original Hebrew and try to transliterate it as close as possible to the language you wish to speak it in.
It is not unusual to bring new words into a different language because they don’t have a comparable word to match it.
When I use to watch TV I would trip across a Spanish speaking channel and I couldn’t understand a thing they were saying then all of a sudden I would hear one English word among all the Spanish words, because they didn’t have a word for it in their language.
In that verse you quoted the word for “Lord” or “LORD” in my KJ version, it would be His Name. - (YaHuWeH/YaHuVeH) and some peeps spell it - (YaHWeH/YaHVeH) ... we do have the tetragrammaton of “YHWH/YHVH”, but it’s the vowel marks that seem to be confusing of where and when to place them.
In the rest of the sentence the word for “God” would be ‘Elohiym.
Surely you can go from there and come up with a more logical and precise solution.
Remember names are to be transliterated, and words are to be translated.
RE: It is not unusual to bring new words into a different language because they don’t have a comparable word to match it.
But the point is they HAVE (or HAD) a comparable word to match it.
Otherwise there would not have been Arab Christians in the past and in the present ( even Arab converts ).
The Bible (both old and new) has been in existence in the Arabic language for over a thousand years.
If the word used for God in Arabic were so confusing, then explain to me how Arabic Christians came into existence BEFORE Muhammad.
RE: And was right. I pegged the reason for your questioning.
I’m done with you.
_______________
Those reasoning that you gave BEG the questions that I ask, therefore they had to be asked.
Have yo answered them? Hardly.
You might be done with me but the questions that are begged by your responses remain open.
heya “Seek” ... we have to stop meeting like this ... smiles
you asked me:
If the word used for God in Arabic were so confusing, then explain to me how Arabic Christians came into existence BEFORE Muhammad.
************
Do I really have to answer that ... LoL?
I guess my best answer would be that the Power of the Holy Spirit is so Great that there is no stronghold or language barrier that can keep it from where it needs to be.
My second response would be:
It is probably more confusing for us in this present age right now because we-(meaning myself and others that think like I do), have come to associate it with the negative and dark influences of islam, and that’s very understandable coming from us who are on the outside looking in at it all.
It’s a tough call, and I’m not one to settle for happy mediums. I like things cut and dried. It’s yay or nay with me, and I just have to let things sort themselves out in the end.
I”m not there dealing with it, and I’m not running the show either. But the “One” who is, searches our hearts and our minds, and He knows who we mean when we speak to Him.
It’s like the name of Christ Jesus. Do you know how much it bothered me to know that His name has been so discombobulated over the years with all the different language transliterations? It’s like the letter “J” wasn’t even created until like the 17th century if I remember correctly.
It was Yahushua/Yehowshua in Hebrew,
To Yeshua in Aramaic
To Iesous in Greek,
To Iesus in Latin,
Then the letter (I/i) is changed to a (J/j) a few hundred years ago, and we end up with,
Jesus in English and comparable to Joshua really.
Every name we use in the Bible that starts with a “J” is supposed to be a “Y”. Like Jacob is really “Ya’aqob”
Even the name of our LORD ended up with a “J” in front of it like when they say Jehovah, and the vowels are even different. I look at my Strongs Concordance and they even have that name in there too, and I’m like wow, what happened to Yahuweh or Yahuveh, or at least Yah? But no... they have “Jah” up in there.
Everything has become so corrupted over the centuries and it causes a lot of confusion for some of us folks who are striving to rise above it all and do the right thing.
Oh well ... sorry for my rant again.
I’ve been venting a lot here these days, and as I said before, I’m thoroughly disgusted with the whole world and I just wish it would stop and take a good look at itself, and let me off at the same time too ... sighs
Take care grasshopper...
All things will be revealed in the end, and if I don’t see you here, I will see you there ... smiles
Yes, you do. Because the main reason for the questioning in this thread appears to be to prove to everyone that these folks should (and apparently "have" to) continue to use the word Allah because no other word suffices. This is why I have felt for awhile now that this is just a game.
There is no "have to". Whatever word is chosen would be explained to them as the appropriate substitute since Allah now has evil connotations and should NOT be used in Christianity. You're right. Any translation confusions will work themselves out with the help of the Holy Spirit. It's happened in the past and it will continue in the future. And people have still converted!
Like you said what that word would be isn't up to us. As a Catholic, I would expect the Catholic Church to decide the appropriate word so that it is used uniformly. However, as I stated way back, the Church these days doesn't seem to have a problem with the word because, after all since Vatican II, Allah and our God is the same God to them (which really was my main thrust in this thread and somehow got sucked into a so-called "discussion" about what word Arabs used before Islam and what word we should change it to).
Let’s cut to the chase then, is it your contention that we replace all instances of the word “God” used in the Arabic bible with Jesus?
If so, that would be inaccurate because the Old Testament really doesn’t use the name when it refers to God ( not in English, not in Chinese, not in Filipino, not in Japanese — the languages I can speak ).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.