Luther's 95 Theses
Posted on 06/08/2014 1:59:17 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
In 2017, we will witness the 500th anniversary of one of the most important, influential and regrettable events in Church history: the Protestant Reformation, or the Protestant Rebellion, as some prefer to call it. Indeed, the latter term would suit me better, too. But, being German, I am used to the former expression and should I ever refer to said event as die protestantische Rebellion, people would think me some sort of radical. On that thought, perhaps it is worth noting that rebels are often quite radical themselves, which is one thing we can definitely say of the so-called "Reformers". To mark this anniversary, the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) has planned a number of events, beginning with a "Lutheran Decade" from 2008 to 2017. Each year has it’s own theme in the form of "The Reformation and…", i.e. Education, Freedom, Music, Tolerance, Politics and others.
The decade will culminate in the celebratory year of 2017, to which the President of the Evangelical "Church" in Germany (EKD), Nikolaus Schneider, has even invited Pope Francis. But, really, how likely is it His Holiness will hop on a plane and join in the celebration of someone his predecessor excommunicated? One might ask, is there any room for Catholics to take part in some sort of event? This is the question that is circulating in the mother country of the Reformation: Germany. The Most Reverend Gerhard Feige, Bishop of Magdeburg, is the Bishops' Conference's representative for ecumenical affairs. He has dedicated a lot of thought and time to the question how Catholics should view this event.
It begins with the name: Do we call it an anniversary, something that could imply happiness, or a commemoration of an event that has wrought such great damage upon the Body of Christ, His holy Bride, the Catholic Church? The German bishops have chosen the latter term. There is still confusion on the whole thing, though: The EKD is not being very clear on what exactly they want to celebrate. One hears catchy words such as "diversity", "conscience", and the like stuck onto the Reformation in their talk, but never do we hear of heresy, schism or even the antisemitism of Luther and his ilk. Indeed, who in his right mind would celebrate the chaos and harm inflicted on the Church by the so-called "Reformers"? Not even the Protestants organizing the event dare to say thus. Yet, one gets the impression that the whole event is not actually interested in critically evaluating the past, or their theology for that matter, but rather praising it as the dawn of an era of "tolerance" and "liberty".
Could this be any further from the truth? Professor Heinz Schilling of Berlin, a member of the advisory board for the anniversary, stated in an interview that Luther was "everything but tolerant" and criticized the EKD as "quite understandably not interested in any of the research’s findings". He went even further and said that the organizers made themselves appear "laughable among scholars" by claiming what they do. Margot Käßmann, who is the anniversary’s ambassador and a former Lutheran "bishop", once claimed that it was thanks to Luther that her sect had female "bishops". The professor criticizes this as yet another inaccuracy and something that Luther certainly did not envision. Is it any wonder, then, that the EKD has not come out clearly and said what the entire occasion is about for them, as the bishops have repeatedly bewailed, if even their own board members see through their catchy slogans?
What about us Catholics? Is there any way in which we can join our separated brethren in their commemoration? I argue: no. Some will disagree, but to me, the Reformation is intrinsically connected to fracture in the Body of Christ, heresy and the resulting total chaos. I could never join any such "commemoration", even if one doesn't call it an "anniversary" for the sake of appeasing Catholics. When have we ever "commemorated" the schism of 1054, or any heresy, for that matter? I believe we would do great harm to the effort of achieving Christian unity by taking part in any way. It obscures the borders between Catholicism and Protestantism, confuses people, and may even cause scandal.
The aforementioned Margot Käßmann suggested the following kind of participation of Catholics and Protestants: Each group could begin a pilgrimage on their own route, and reach one common destination. She would also like the program to achieve that all people learn "that 31 October is Reformation Day and not Halloween", to which Bishop Feige of Magdeburg replied "and the eve of All Saints". But the problem I see with Käßmann’s proposal is this: Although the idea might seem nice, it suggests that Protestantism and Catholicism are somehow equals. They most definitely are not. And certainly not according to Luther himself! Catholics know that their Church is the Church Christ the Lord founded on St. Peter, and Protestantism's very name already suggests otherwise. The Reformers made that point very clear. From a Catholic point of view, a heretical movement that splits the Church cannot be of equal worth as the One True Faith. Just think how we would have fought Arianism if such had been our position! This is not to say that Protestants aren't Christians, of course, but we must realize that Protestantism is not what our Lord willed us to have or believe: Catholicism is. Thus, two equal pilgrimages reaching one destination à la Käßmann would cause scandal and confusion. I assume she does not want it to symbolize the way we might some day find unity, but rather the common destination means Christ. But that is precisely the point: The Catholic Church is the ark of salvation, the Body and Bride of Christ, and She alone has "the words of eternal life" (John 6:68). She is Christ in this world apart from Whom "no one comes to the Father" (John 14:6). Protestantism has distorted those words of eternal life fundamentally, and thus cannot be on equal footing with Holy Mother Church. If Christ is "the Way, the Truth and the Life" apart from Whom there is no salvation, then so is the Catholic Church, for She is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:24).
Thus, let me emphasize again: Celebrating the Reformation, or even commemorating it with Protestants, will blur the sharp line between the One True Church and those communities that came from the Protestant Reformation. It will scandalize and, actually, almost certainly make Christian unity harder to achieve. For in pretending Protestantism is somehow equally valid or of the same dignity as Catholicism, we take away the very reason for Christian unity: to be united in the one Church that our Lord left us, founded on Peter in the person of the Roman Pontiff.
Therefore, I hope the German bishops decide not to participate – however unlikely that is. It remains to be seen whether the ecumenical progress in achieving unity hoped for will come about. Let us pray, that 2017 will bring to many people's attention the Truth of Catholicism and the scandal that the separation of Christians is, fostering in them the desire for unity with Christ in His Bride, which is Holy Church.
Luther's 95 Theses
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Well
Y’all do sleep and eat.....in turns.
LX stated very clearly that he worships the Bible. And Gash darn it, if he says it, it must be 100% true.
Heck I teach woodworking down here at one of the local schools and I want to be on record as offering to build a shrine for him to use in his Bible worship. Heck and of the rest of you protestants that want me to I will build one for you. I won't even charge you labor, just the cost of the lumber.
And cite your experts.
I call myself a Christian who follows Jesus Christ who died on a cross for my sins.
I can't speak for anyone else.
Simple yes or no question
Nope...it's a bait question. Again, I can't answer what all protestants believe just as you can't answer what all catholics believe.
I've answered the question but I'll do so again. I follow Jesus Christ who died on a cross for my sins. With that statement means I follow His Word as noted in the Old and New Testaments.
I can't make it any clearer than that.
Do you consider the "catholics in name only" to also be servants of the most High Lord?
Are you asking whether each Protestant considers every Catholic-labelled-them-as-Protestant to also be servants of the most High Lord?
I have read this question three times and even asked one of the Protestants here at work, what this questions means and we are both stymied.
No it isn’t, yes you can. Yes or no.
Who gets to define what constitutes being a "Protestant"? The Protestant being asked the question, or the Catholic doing the asking? Will the term be defined, before the answer is demanded?
FWIW, I liked ealgeone's prior answer.
Right - Any day is a good day to worship.
I think Sunday Church recognition as a Sabbath ‘day of rest’ came about from farms being so far from the Church and tithes were paid on the first day of the week, so it was easier to have services on the day the ‘first fruits’ were brought.
I am afraid it is a bit more nefarious than that.
But the genesis, I believe, starts with the fact that the Jews invented the potluck dinner. When the Sabbath was over (Saturday evening, the beginning of Sunday) it was customary for Jews to get together in potluck fashion with the intent of extending the Sabbath as far as they could. The Christians followed that custom, with their common belief causing them to naturally gather together exclusive of other Judaic sects. There they would really break bread together, to begin with the Communion (which has it's own basis in Judaism), followed by the potluck meal. It was at one such session that Paul talked till midnight, and the poor kid fell asleep and fell out the window...
There was friction between these Nazarenes and the Pharisees, no doubt a catalyst. But one must remember there were many sects in Judaism. However, after some decades, the Jews began evicting Nazarenes from the synagogues. That wedge was certainly there, and it made it difficult for Nazarenes to remain. But the real work of it came by edict and decree - First by Imperial Rome, and later, the Roman church.
Don’t protestants conside3r themselves servants of the most High Lord?
I do not think I could be called a servant of Christ but I am a believer and I try to be a follower but at times have done a pretty sorry job of it.
I’m talking about institutional monopolies. They don’t work any better in the ecclesiastical realm than in business or government or public schools. Monopolies breed arrogance and self-protective corruption. Choice and competition keep institutions on their toes and make them more accountable to and concerned about their members/clients.
The Bible is Jesus, the Word made flesh.
Hint, it's in the NT.
Do you know that in the Religion Forum it is against the rules to declare something about another poster that is not true?
I believe the admonition is "discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal"
Heck and of(sic) the rest of you protestants...
Please do the right thing and ask the Religion Moderator to remove your mindreading post.
It seems to me two parties discussing a subject shood come to mutual agreement about terms used in such a discussion. So for example, if the term “Protestant” is used in a discussion about Catholicism, if there is disagreement about what a “Protestant” is, both parties should establish that definition before proceeding or else the discussion is meaningless.
This kind of mutual agreement is usually acomplished through interrogatories, by both parties, until a mutually agreeable definition is reached. Or not reached, and if not then the conversation ends right there.
It seems to me a lot of time is wasted back and forth when many do not agree on basic definitions to begin with. Without such, again any further correspondence is pointless
Top 10 Most Wicked Popes
http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top-10-most-wicked-popes/
1. Liberius, reigned 352-66 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
2. Honorius I, reigned 625-638 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
3. Stephen VI, reigned 896-89 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
4. John XII, reigned 955-964 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
5. Benedict IX, reigned 1032-1048 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
6. Boniface VIII, reigned 1294-1303 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
7. Urban VI, reigned 1378-1389 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
8. Alexander VI, reigned 1492-1503 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
9. Leo X, reigned 1513-1521 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
10. Clement VII, reigned 1523-1524 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
Top 10 Worst Popes in History
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php
1. Pope Alexander VI (1431 – 1503)
2. Pope John XII (c. 937 – 964)
3. Pope Benedict IX (c. 1012 – 1065/85)
4. Pope Sergius III (? – 911)
5. Pope Stephen VI (? – 897)
6. Pope Julius III (1487 – 1555)
7. Pope Urban II (ca. 1035 – 1099)
8. Pope Clement VI (1291 – 1352)
9. Pope Leo X (1475 – 1521)
10. Pope Boniface VIII (c. 1235 – 1303)
I read it almost every day. We have a Bible plan that gets you through the entire Bible in one year and the Catechism as well. If you like I can give you a link to it.
Do you know that in the Religion Forum it is against the rules to declare something about another poster that is not true?
I believe the admonition is "discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal"
Yes that is correct.
Please do the right thing and ask the Religion Moderator to remove your mindreading post.
Which post is it that you are talking about? Here is a copy of LX's post #185. I have left it intact and in it's entirety. The only modification I have made was to bold the part where LX feely admits to worshipping the Bible. Now a real Christian would have checked to verify before he falsely accused, or would admit his error and apologize. I will not be holding my breath since I have seen only one protestant on these forums ever admit an error.
Protestant's worship the Bible, only, at least the ones I've belonged to. There's no elevating a man (Pope) or praying to folks other than God or Jesus. No man written Catechism, no numerous man made rules and regulations. And, maybe Jesus (he's omniscient except for knowing the time of his return) maybe needed Peter to start the Church knowing how they would fall away from the true word and lead to Protestantism? What religion was the Spanish Inquisition? 185 posted on Sunday, June 8, 2014 9:47:59 PM by Lx (Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili.")
Logic is in fact one of my strong suits. The Protestant churches came out of the Roman Catholic churche. They are her daughters and have retained many of her errors.
One of the most disturbing things I have seen is that so many Catholics simply say that salvation is through Mary, not Jesus. Mary was the most blessed person ever, with St. Joseph a second. But they are not God. They did not die for my or anyone else’s sins.
Saying you Better be right with Mary or else isn’t even good Catholic theology
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