Luther's 95 Theses
Posted on 06/08/2014 1:59:17 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
In 2017, we will witness the 500th anniversary of one of the most important, influential and regrettable events in Church history: the Protestant Reformation, or the Protestant Rebellion, as some prefer to call it. Indeed, the latter term would suit me better, too. But, being German, I am used to the former expression and should I ever refer to said event as die protestantische Rebellion, people would think me some sort of radical. On that thought, perhaps it is worth noting that rebels are often quite radical themselves, which is one thing we can definitely say of the so-called "Reformers". To mark this anniversary, the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) has planned a number of events, beginning with a "Lutheran Decade" from 2008 to 2017. Each year has it’s own theme in the form of "The Reformation and…", i.e. Education, Freedom, Music, Tolerance, Politics and others.
The decade will culminate in the celebratory year of 2017, to which the President of the Evangelical "Church" in Germany (EKD), Nikolaus Schneider, has even invited Pope Francis. But, really, how likely is it His Holiness will hop on a plane and join in the celebration of someone his predecessor excommunicated? One might ask, is there any room for Catholics to take part in some sort of event? This is the question that is circulating in the mother country of the Reformation: Germany. The Most Reverend Gerhard Feige, Bishop of Magdeburg, is the Bishops' Conference's representative for ecumenical affairs. He has dedicated a lot of thought and time to the question how Catholics should view this event.
It begins with the name: Do we call it an anniversary, something that could imply happiness, or a commemoration of an event that has wrought such great damage upon the Body of Christ, His holy Bride, the Catholic Church? The German bishops have chosen the latter term. There is still confusion on the whole thing, though: The EKD is not being very clear on what exactly they want to celebrate. One hears catchy words such as "diversity", "conscience", and the like stuck onto the Reformation in their talk, but never do we hear of heresy, schism or even the antisemitism of Luther and his ilk. Indeed, who in his right mind would celebrate the chaos and harm inflicted on the Church by the so-called "Reformers"? Not even the Protestants organizing the event dare to say thus. Yet, one gets the impression that the whole event is not actually interested in critically evaluating the past, or their theology for that matter, but rather praising it as the dawn of an era of "tolerance" and "liberty".
Could this be any further from the truth? Professor Heinz Schilling of Berlin, a member of the advisory board for the anniversary, stated in an interview that Luther was "everything but tolerant" and criticized the EKD as "quite understandably not interested in any of the research’s findings". He went even further and said that the organizers made themselves appear "laughable among scholars" by claiming what they do. Margot Käßmann, who is the anniversary’s ambassador and a former Lutheran "bishop", once claimed that it was thanks to Luther that her sect had female "bishops". The professor criticizes this as yet another inaccuracy and something that Luther certainly did not envision. Is it any wonder, then, that the EKD has not come out clearly and said what the entire occasion is about for them, as the bishops have repeatedly bewailed, if even their own board members see through their catchy slogans?
What about us Catholics? Is there any way in which we can join our separated brethren in their commemoration? I argue: no. Some will disagree, but to me, the Reformation is intrinsically connected to fracture in the Body of Christ, heresy and the resulting total chaos. I could never join any such "commemoration", even if one doesn't call it an "anniversary" for the sake of appeasing Catholics. When have we ever "commemorated" the schism of 1054, or any heresy, for that matter? I believe we would do great harm to the effort of achieving Christian unity by taking part in any way. It obscures the borders between Catholicism and Protestantism, confuses people, and may even cause scandal.
The aforementioned Margot Käßmann suggested the following kind of participation of Catholics and Protestants: Each group could begin a pilgrimage on their own route, and reach one common destination. She would also like the program to achieve that all people learn "that 31 October is Reformation Day and not Halloween", to which Bishop Feige of Magdeburg replied "and the eve of All Saints". But the problem I see with Käßmann’s proposal is this: Although the idea might seem nice, it suggests that Protestantism and Catholicism are somehow equals. They most definitely are not. And certainly not according to Luther himself! Catholics know that their Church is the Church Christ the Lord founded on St. Peter, and Protestantism's very name already suggests otherwise. The Reformers made that point very clear. From a Catholic point of view, a heretical movement that splits the Church cannot be of equal worth as the One True Faith. Just think how we would have fought Arianism if such had been our position! This is not to say that Protestants aren't Christians, of course, but we must realize that Protestantism is not what our Lord willed us to have or believe: Catholicism is. Thus, two equal pilgrimages reaching one destination à la Käßmann would cause scandal and confusion. I assume she does not want it to symbolize the way we might some day find unity, but rather the common destination means Christ. But that is precisely the point: The Catholic Church is the ark of salvation, the Body and Bride of Christ, and She alone has "the words of eternal life" (John 6:68). She is Christ in this world apart from Whom "no one comes to the Father" (John 14:6). Protestantism has distorted those words of eternal life fundamentally, and thus cannot be on equal footing with Holy Mother Church. If Christ is "the Way, the Truth and the Life" apart from Whom there is no salvation, then so is the Catholic Church, for She is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:24).
Thus, let me emphasize again: Celebrating the Reformation, or even commemorating it with Protestants, will blur the sharp line between the One True Church and those communities that came from the Protestant Reformation. It will scandalize and, actually, almost certainly make Christian unity harder to achieve. For in pretending Protestantism is somehow equally valid or of the same dignity as Catholicism, we take away the very reason for Christian unity: to be united in the one Church that our Lord left us, founded on Peter in the person of the Roman Pontiff.
Therefore, I hope the German bishops decide not to participate – however unlikely that is. It remains to be seen whether the ecumenical progress in achieving unity hoped for will come about. Let us pray, that 2017 will bring to many people's attention the Truth of Catholicism and the scandal that the separation of Christians is, fostering in them the desire for unity with Christ in His Bride, which is Holy Church.
Luther's 95 Theses
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Oops, forgot to give the quote in my last post.
Sorry.
Thanks for playing though.
legei h mhthr autou toiV diakonoiV o ti an legh umin poihsate
New International Version His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
New Living Translation But his mother told the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
English Standard Version His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
New American Standard Bible His mother said to the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it."
King James Bible His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
Holman Christian Standard Bible Do whatever He tells you," His mother told the servants.
International Standard Version His mother told the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
NET Bible His mother told the servants, "Whatever he tells you, do it."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English His mother said to the servants, “Whatever he says to you, do.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation His mother told the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
Jubilee Bible 2000 His mother said unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
King James 2000 Bible His mother said unto the servants, whatsoever he says unto you, do it.
American King James Version His mother said to the servants, Whatever he said to you, do it.
American Standard Version His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
Douay-Rheims Bible His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.
Darby Bible Translation His mother says to the servants, Whatever he may say to you, do.
English Revised Version His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
Webster's Bible Translation His mother saith to the servants, Whatever he saith to you, do it.
Weymouth New Testament His mother said to the attendants, "Whatever he tells you to do, do it."
World English Bible His mother said to the servants, "Whatever he says to you, do it."
Young's Literal Translation His mother saith to the ministrants, 'Whatever he may say to you -- do.'
N
I did not say "You are bearing false witness"
You could say it is like asking if someone is still beating their wife.
your comments in 282 in response to my pointing out Luther's public antiSemitic treatise later used by the Germans to try to kill every last Jewish man, woman, and child; somehow that provoked your flesh and so you continue in your defense of Luther by attacking some popes in order to somehow exonerate or mitigate what Martin Luther did..
Ignore Jesus’ mother?
I suggest that you not do that. What would Jesus say to you about how you treated his mother at the moment of your death?
It doesn't say what you want it to say...And that's why you have to compare scripture with scripture to avoid creating a false doctrine out of a single verse...
God (Jesus of Creation) was manifest in the flesh...Jesus (the Creator, the Divine Nature) was not created in Mary's womb...
Only the body (the human flesh) of Jesus was created in Mary's womb...The divine nature came from the Holy Spirit only and was united with the human nature of Jesus...
It is a spiritual operation combined with a human/natural operation...
When this is understood, one can understand the phraseology in the scriptures..."Mary, mother of Jesus"...Never "Mary, mother of God...
1. To utter or address a prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worship. 2. To make a fervent request or entreaty.Very interesting.
Dictionaries always put the most prevalent definition first, bolded above.
What is interesting is the Catholic tradition of praying to Mary.
Note the definition that you posted:
prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worshipSo that pretty much settles the issue if praying to Mary is worship. According to your dictionary definition, it is worship of Mary.
Iscool, thanks for bringing this out to the thread so all can see that only God should be prayed to.
I realize many Catholics say they don't pray to Mary, they just ask her to pray for them.
Popes proclaim that they pray to Mary, in fact some even say that Mary is responsible for the salvation of souls, sans Jesus.
So what??? A free woman and guest of the wedding instructs the servants on what to do...There's no significance to that...
And we know that's not true no matter how many times they deny it...
This pray thing is really elementary...If I am speaking to someone and I 'say' I pray, it is automatically followed by you, or, that you, or something similar...THAT is requesting something...
BUT when I pray (not saying I pray, but start off with a prayer), that is worship...
Now you can worship (pray to) someone and still ask for that person to do something for you but that is still worship...
Yes...the one account we have of Mary talking to the servants at the wedding. This command is directed at the servants.
Close, but no cigar.
The church that God created (not Peter, but Jesus) is the body of Christ.
It is made up of every born again believer (in/of Jesus) not just big "C" Catholics.
The "She"...capitalized as if Holy like God...is not the path to salvation, Jesus is.
Apart from Him, there is no salvation.
Here is my Catholic/Mary story. I lived across the street from a Catholic woman for nearly 20 yrs. [Actually, in Boston I was surrounded by Catholics. Most were just downright mean. But this one woman, the subject of my story, started out very nasty to me but warmed up when I started shoveling snow out of her driveway, & kept it up for many years.] It took a while, but we finally struck up a relationship.
This woman was born in a Catholic home. She went to Catholic school, & then to Catholic college. From there, she was hired by a Catholic/parochial school, where she taught all her life. When she eventually retired, she volunteered five days a week at her local parish. She even willed her house to the Catholic church.
On the windowsill of her kitchen she had a statue of Mary. Usually the statue faced into the room. One day I came over & the statue was facing outward, with her back to the room. I mentioned the statue had gotten turned around, & I shifted it 180 degrees, so that it again faced the interior of the house.
My Catholic friend promptly turned the statue another 180 degrees, so that it again faced the window/overlooked the back yard. As she did so, she explained. “The draught has lasted so long, the grass is turning brown. I want Mary to see it, so she will send rain.”
True story. Totally creepd me out, I must say. Living so long in the Boston area was an educational experience. I didn’t enjoy it, though. Being a non-Catholic got me looked down on & engendered a lot of cold shoulders. I’m glad to be back in the South.
So reading and believing the Bible is idolatry huh?
Mary idolatry is cool though?
Do you read the Bible?
Nestorius was correct in his assessment...
These people were going around saying 'Mary is the mother of God' but when cornered, they would say, 'well not really'...Seems pretty dishonest to me...
The statement says it would be impossible to separate the natures of Jesus...It's hard to follow this Catholic theory after spending so much time in the scriptures...
We are created in God's image...That doesn't mean we look like him...It means we have a body, a soul and a spirit just as God is a Trinity...
We know that when our body dies, our soul and spirit leaves the body...So while they are somehow connected, they are unconnected as well...
We know our spirit came from God and the spirit combined with the body became a living soul...
We know that Jesus' body died...We know that a part of Jesus continued to live since we know that he then went to the inner parts of the earth...We know Jesus' body separated from his soul and spirit...
And then, we know that as Christians were are given a 'new' nature...
So yes, the divine nature and the human nature are separate...Nestorius was correct...
well since I am a Servant of Christ and so are All Catholics, I guess it was directed at us. Don’t protestants conside3r themselves servants of the most High Lord?
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