How Hitler and Judas could end up in heaven

The Week ^ | 06/04/2014 | Damon Linker

[defconw]

I used a simalar exercise with my religious ed kids back in the day. It is a very interesting topic. It was right after 9/11.

[Genoa]

I think it's likely that if there is an afterlife, everyone — even Judas, even Hitler — eventually ends up in heaven

The unexamined assumption in much writing on this subject is that there are two alternatives: (1) eternal torment, or (2) eventual salvation for all. This leaves unconsidered the possibility that immortality is not inherent, but is a gift of God for the redeemed (Rom. 6:23), and that those who are not redeemed are eventually destroyed.

[wideawake]

Ah, the old apokatastasis canard.

[Don Corleone]

I remember being taught that one can never know of the possibility of repentant thought just at the moment of death. I don’t believe some of those people were capable of it...but only God knows..

[Vigilanteman]

This leaves unconsidered the possibility that immortality is not inherent, but is a gift of God for the redeemed (Rom. 6:23), and that those who are not redeemed are eventually destroyed.

Amen. This also would include the possibility that they could be reincarnated as rats or Obama supporters, forever dependent on the industry of their betters. But I repeat myself.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: that those who are not redeemed are eventually destroyed.

If you are destroyed, how can you be tormented forever?

Revelation 20:10

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[RatRipper]

from memory:

It is better for that man if he had never been born

straight is the way, narrow is the gate and few there be that find it

no one comes to the Father but by me

The guy who wrote that article is spewing garbage

[onedoug]

For anyone to say, “This is how God handles the afterlife”, is the ultimate in hubris.

[SpirituTuo]

I completely disagree. Hell is for those who reject God in this life, and thus will live without Him in the next. We condemn ourselves to Hell by choosing to reject God’s will, in favor of our own, as well as our unwillingness to love our neighbor.

Fortunately, the Eternal Sacrifice of Jesus on the cross has redeemed all mankind, for eternity, but requires us to accept that gift, freely given.

I will save Purgatory for another day.

[Dr. Thorne]

Quasi-Universalism from a New Republic hack. I’ll give it all the consideration it merits.

[Viennacon]

Total foolishness. Heaven for all? This is universalism. “IT IS A NARROW PATH”

And it is not the atrocities of Hitler and the betrayal of Judas which land them in hell, it is their suicide. Any crime can be forgiven, but a final act of evil without any space for repentance condemns one to hell.

[Buckeye McFrog]

...so the traitor, the thief, and the genocidal maniac all walk up to the Pearly Gates, and Saint Peter says to the bartender...

[defconw]

That's what I was a taught and taught the kids. We choose Heaven or Hell. The discussion can get pretty far into the weeds. But given the right circumstances it is an interesting philosophical thinking exercise.

[Genoa]

If you are destroyed, how can you be tormented forever?

Literally, an extended torment “into the ages of the ages” (eis tous aionas ton aionon) is promised to Satan, the beast, and the false prophet (Rev. 20:10). Jesus speaks of the soul being destroyed in gehenna (Matt. 10:28).

[CA Conservative]

This is apparently a very theologically ignorant writer. The Bible is pretty clear about this. Salvation has nothing to do with you “doing good” or morality as we know it. Salvation is about what you do with Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for our sins. If you repent and accept his atoning sacrifice, you will be saved. If not, you won’t. And the Bible tells us that those who do NOT accept salvation by His grace and His blood, whose names are not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, will ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire, prepared for the Devil and his angels, “where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched”.

This author seems to believe that people are saved by their morality or good works, and are condemned by their immorality or evil works. Wrong. You are saved by turning to Christ and accepting HIS sacrifice. If you don’t, you are already condemned.

Now, if you turn to Christ and live for Him, then you will do good and shun evil, but that is an outcome of your salvation - it is not the reason for it.

[Politicalkiddo]

“In certain schools of Christian thought, hell is not everlasting, but a more painful form of purgatory.”

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” Matthew 25:41

[SeekAndFind]

RE: Literally, an extended torment “into the ages of the ages” (eis tous aionas ton aionon) is promised to Satan, the beast, and the false prophet (Rev. 20:10). Jesus speaks of the soul being destroyed in gehenna (Matt. 10:28).

So, what was the rich man doing asking Abraham to send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool his tongue, saying he is tormented in this flame? (Luke 16:19-31)

[paladinan]

Well... it's also a theory for those who don't take the Bible very seriously:

"And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any one worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also shall drink the wine of God's wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:9-11)

Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' [46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:45-46)

Not to sound snarky, but: who should you believe? Modernist theologians, or some mere itinerant preacher in 1st century Palestine Who happened to be God?