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Can Roman Catholics be saved? (Open)
Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry ^ | 2013 | Matt Slick

Posted on 05/28/2014 5:50:04 AM PDT by WVKayaker

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To: redhawk.44mag

That we will. :)


261 posted on 05/29/2014 8:51:34 AM PDT by chesley
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To: defconw; bkaycee

That’s right which is why what we (Catholics) are required to believe about them is pretty simple.

The Pope’s function flows from common sense more than anything. If a doctrine is confused or debated and this debate causes dissension and division then he speaks up on the matter and is protected by the Holy Spirit when doing so. Protected from teaching error in faith and morals. Not economics not politics faith and morals. It’s pretty simple and common sensical.

Mary was assumed bodily into heaven. There’s nothing in Scripture that says this can’t be done and indeed, what’s so toxic or harmful about believing that about Mary? It’s horrendous that her son would love her so much that he took her up to heave to be with him bodily? That’s a horrible thing to believe? That’s “deifying Mary”, and not just believing it’s an act of supreme love and gratitude on behalf of a son to his mother? It’s crazy it’s crazy to believe that’s anything else other than that. And a message of hope for us that we too will be raised up on the last day, to be again reunited with our bodies in paradise for eternity. It’s a dogma that demonstrates the love and promise of God for ALL of us.

That’s all we are required to believe that’s “more” than your average Christian. We are even allowed to disagree with the Pope when he doesn’t speak ex cathedra. And the so called “blasphemous” titles of Mary so many get in a tither about are not themselves dogmatic. The only one that is is the “Theotokos” or “God-bearer”, which is a pretty accurate description for Mary, unless one doesn’t believe Jesus is God! So many get hung up on the title “Mother of God” as if any mother at all actually creates the soul inside her.

No! All mothers including Mary *bear* the souls inside them, they don’t create them. So just as it’s not blasphemous to call my mother “the mother of 47”, it’s not blasphemous to say Mary was and is the “mother of God” because she didn’t create God she BORE him.

It’s amazing to me that it almost seems as if many LOOK for reasons to disagree with the Catholic Church. The Church’s teachings are quite reasonable, if one is willing to listen with an open heart. A heart willing to admit it may be wrong on occasion.


262 posted on 05/29/2014 8:53:35 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven

Good post. Very helpful.


263 posted on 05/29/2014 8:56:35 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
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To: FourtySeven

Sounds like alot of the “mandatory” beliefs that RCC requires for salvation are not found in the Nicene Creed.

Must Catholics also believe in Purgatory, Transubstantiation, Only priests can forgive sins for salvation in addition to the Papacy and Marian doctrines?

I think the Lord only mentioned that Faith in Him for forgiveness of sin was required for the Free gift. John 3:16, etc..


264 posted on 05/29/2014 9:39:17 AM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: cloudmountain
<>BTW: What is the difference between a Baptist and a "Reformed Baptist"???


I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
 
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
 
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
 
I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of GOD or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist Church of GOD!"
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of GOD, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD?"
He said,"Reformed Baptist Church of GOD!"
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915!"
 
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.
-- Emo Phillips

265 posted on 05/29/2014 9:52:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: cloudmountain
<>BTW: What is the difference between a Baptist and a "Reformed Baptist"???


What's the difference between Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox?

266 posted on 05/29/2014 9:53:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

All it takes to form a new church is a resentment and a collection plate.


267 posted on 05/29/2014 9:54:26 AM PDT by Hoodat (Democrats - Opposing Equal Protection since 1828)
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To: narses

TADA!!!


268 posted on 05/29/2014 9:54:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Funny!


269 posted on 05/29/2014 9:55:19 AM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
However many will NOT, and in fact call Protestants heretics.

EsPECIALLY that DAMNED Luther!

270 posted on 05/29/2014 9:58:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: defconw
I am proud to be Catholic, not proud of all Catholics.

I am humble, to be a Christian. Not all Christian are humble.

271 posted on 05/29/2014 10:00:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: bkaycee

No sense in calling yourself a “Catholic” if you don’t believe in the Pope or Mary. As a Catholic you are either in all the way or you have effectively excommunicated yourself. I can not fathom the thought of not agreeing with the Pope in matters of faith and morals. I can not fathom the thought of not going to Mother Mary to put in a special word for me with her son. She knows Him better than anyone.


272 posted on 05/29/2014 10:02:50 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus")
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To: Gamecock

You need to read it again. Then I will translate it for you.


273 posted on 05/29/2014 10:05:04 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus")
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To: Mark17
Go Blackhawks.


274 posted on 05/29/2014 10:05:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JPX2011
For 2,000 years The Catholic Church has been preserved from error on orders from God and exists to this day to preach and teach those here now and the generations to come.



Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

275 posted on 05/29/2014 10:08:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: NKP_Vet
Christ works in strange and mysterious ways.

So, apparently, does His MOM!!


Let's try some easy math:


There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;

If merely 1% of them  'ask' Mary for help just once each day;

that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.

Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)

...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!

Purty good fer someone NOT 'devine'!

276 posted on 05/29/2014 10:10:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
Read your footnotes and stop believing what someone tells you.

You guys gots FOOTNOTES??

The MORMONs have links!!!

277 posted on 05/29/2014 10:12:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: bkaycee

Well first of all we don’t believe only priests can forgive sins. In times of emergency an act of contrition directed towards God directly is not going to send you to hell. God isn’t going to condemn you if you make every effort to come to a priest (or if none is available).

Your question is a good one though and I must admit I don’t know where to point you for an exhaustive, yet easy to read list of required dogmas, other than the Catechism, which can be dense. I was under the (mistaken) impression the Papacy and the Marian dogmas were the only stumbling blocks for you. I’m sorry that’s my mistake.

Yes Transubstantiation, the Magisterium, Tradition. Sure all these should be included as requirements. All pretty much summed up in the Nicene Creed when we say we “believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church”.

Transubstantiation being taught by the one holy catholic and apostolic church guided by the Magisterium and Tradition (and Scripture of course).

It seems to me though every denomination has their own “magisterium” and “tradition” and therefore teachings though, so in that sense it still only seems to me the only differences between Catholicism and the rest of Christianity are the Papacy and the Marian dogmas.

After all, when really pressed, a Calvinist (for example) will tell you if you believe in free will, you’re wrong. So that’s a requirement for Calvinism. (To believe in double predestination, at least some Calvies require that anyway)

Matt Slick himself says if you’re a Catholic, you’re going to hell, so that’s a “requirement” for Matt Slick-ism. (To not be a Catholic)

An AOG will tell you you can lose your salvation, so that’s a “requirement” to be AOG. (To not commit sin, or else you will lose your salvation)

All different groups of Christians have different requirements; the Catholic Church has simply some more I guess. No one really believes you “just have to have faith to be saved”. Not when one seriously starts to investigate the different Christian “flavors” out there.

I suppose that could be the faith of an individual, but I would submit even if an individual is serious about their faith in God, they would want to find out all they could about God and his plan for them, simply because they love him that much.

Who can say, in other words, “I’m satisfied in just knowing what I need to avoid hell, that’s all I want to know about God”?

Is that really satisfying? Is it really love to say to God, “Just tell me what I need to avoid hell, don’t bother me with anything else”. Really? Is that really loving God? Is that really loving yourself?

Don’t know what else to say. Hope that helps.


278 posted on 05/29/2014 10:13:41 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: JPX2011
And if my criticism holds no water I would suggest one take a gander through the rest of FR to see the prevalence of that thought held by so-called Christians whose first instinct is to ask, “What are they doing to help themselves?”


2 Thessalonians 3:10

For even when we were with you, we laid down this rule for you: "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat."

279 posted on 05/29/2014 10:15:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: bkaycee
1. Jesus said this is my body, this is my blood. He did not say this is like my body and like my blood.

2. Purgatory is not a place so much as it is a state. In order to enter into God's kingdom you must be pure. Some take longer then others and it's not a place to fear at all.

3. Priests hearing confessions are in persona Christi. He is a stand in you are actually talking to Jesus. (Don't out God in a box). The priest does not forgive sins, Jesus does. The priest is the facilitator.

4. I am not going to address the Pope and Mary again. It's already been posted.

You really don't care anything about us, you just want to pick, pick, pick. I am done posting to you. Have a wonderful day. I do mean that.

280 posted on 05/29/2014 10:17:21 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
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