Posted on 05/28/2014 5:50:04 AM PDT by WVKayaker
Can Roman Catholics be saved? Yes they can but not if they adhere to Roman Catholic theology. Like anyone else, salvation is found only through faith in Christ alone. ...
(Excerpt) Read more at carm.org ...
Thank you for saving me from getting involved in responding to this barforama.
Excellent summation for all of us Catholics who live in Christ everyday.
There are only two biblical errors in those sentences...God's revelation to the Jews has not yet found its fulfillment...And, Jesus did not found your religion...
The grace necessary for salvation continues to come from Christ, through his Church.
This is one error in this sentence...There is no grace from anyone that comes from or thru your religion...Completely unbiblical...
Those who innocently do not know and embrace this might still attain salvation but those who knowingly and willingly choose to reject it, reject salvation on God’s terms.
There's nothing biblical about it so there's no application to the Christian...
The Catechism (once again quoting Lumen Gentium) summarizes all this as follows: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation:
Yes, your religion teaches that but it is a false teaching...The church is not a necessity for salvation, the church is the result of salvation, according to the bible...
the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church.
Jesus Christ's body is the church, NOT the Church...
He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door.
Men enter into the church (of the scriptures) thru repentance and trust...
Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)
Your religion's catechism is no more than a commentary on its tradition souped up with random pieces of scripture...
As we know, for Centuries your religion prohibited as much as possible the reading of the scriptures by its laity...
As the written words of God became more available to the masses, people started leaving your religion in droves because they could see how your religion perverted the scriptures...And as modern Catholics get into the scriptures, they leave as well...
I'm happy with the church of the scriptures...
I do works of charity, I tithe and give offerings, read and study my Bible...I’m even studying the Greek to know the Word better.
That's a pretty big broad brush you're painting with. I would say, from my own view point and I think it is Biblically based, that those who can work, work. The Bible mentions helping widows and orphans. There are many sections in Proverbs that advise against being lazy or slothfull.
I think most people draw the line on helping someone who is quit capable of working, but won't. Not sure there is any Biblical support for that category.
“There are only two biblical errors in those sentences...God’s revelation to the Jews has not yet found its fulfillment...And, Jesus did not found your religion..”
You’ll make a great Catholic when you finally convert. You remind me Dr. Scott Hahn. He hated the Church and everything about it. But he couldn’t fight the truth any longer and came home to the Church about 20 years ago. Now with just as much zeal he fights for the Church as he fought against it. Christ works in strange and mysterious ways. One day soon your eyes will be open and I will welcome you home!
Perhaps. But I don't think the phenomenon itself can be denied. Am I saying there are no Catholics who adopt this secular understanding of charity? No. Of course not. But I think charity, properly understood precludes this secular understanding. And to be quite honest I think we've seen protestantism all too quick to adopt secular ways when it has been deemed advantageous to them. Whether it is in their praise, worship or the messaging of their evangelization. So I'm not surprised to see the protestant adopt the secular understanding of charity
I think most people draw the line on helping someone who is quit capable of working, but won't.
I agree. But you see what happens here. Individual judgement is deemed the arbiter of charity.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof - which is lacking. The Roman church is without any proof at all.
I always figured it was anyway.
We’ll might find out eventually.
Perhaps there is a little self-righteousness when it comes to all this charity...It is mentioned in God's word...
Mat_6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Mat_23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
There IS plenty of biblical support for working...
2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2Th 3:11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2Th 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
If there is work to do and you're capable of working, it would be wise to get involved in that endeavor instead of standing on a street corner and begging...
I'm not at all like Scott Hahn...Scott Hahn was a pastor of Protestant denomination...And sadly, even then he apparently hadn't found Jesus...I'd guess he thought he could find Jesus in a religion...
So Scott Hahn moved on to another religion in his search for God...He's certainly made a name for himself there...I haven't seen a personal testimony from him...I don't know if he ever became a Christian or not...
I don't have that problem...I am a born again child of God...There is nothing in the heavens or earth that could move me from that position...Least of all, a religion...I am not seeking God...I have found him...
Not only zero proof, it is contrary to the scriptures...
Perhaps there is a little self-righteousness when it comes to all this charity...It is mentioned in God's word...
Self-righteousness? No. Merely the realization that the secular attitude towards charity is pervasive in our society. To the point where it is espoused even among Christ's people. If we weren't in the religion forum we'd be talking about how you can't trust a single one of these scam artists or bums, etc. I don't think anyone can say this is not the common view.
If there is work to do and you're capable of working, it would be wise to get involved in that endeavor instead of standing on a street corner and begging
Nothing against work. It is necessary. However, it is not for us to use those scriptural passages as a justification to not do charity when the opportunity presents itself.
They were cousins. Read your footnotes and stop believing what someone tells you. There was no Aramaic word for cousin, so the word ‘brother’ was used.
But the New Testament was written in Greek... where there IS a word for cousin...
Scott Hahn was a Presbyterian minister and theologian. He converted to Catholicism and is now one of the world’s foremost Christian theologians.
Forget footnotes...Who cares about footnotes???' They were brothers and sisters just as the bible says...
I've read some of his stuff...He perverts the scriptures like so many others who want the bible to say what it doesn't say...If that's a Christian theologian, you can have him...
I also have done a few works of charity. I have established three Foundations, and funded two schools and a hospital (in the West African country of Burkina Faso) out of my back pocket. Scripture tells us to lay up our treasures in heaven and that is what I have done and continue now.
I now live in the Philippines, a land full of Roman Catholicism (you know, the place where many different fanatics like to be crucified, literally!). But, there are a great number of Protestant churches, ranging from Southern and American Baptist to Assembly of God and United Pentecostal. Each of those Protestant groups has a distinct view, but they all spend their efforts to make people change from belonging to a group, but instead to seek the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
They have been to 'church' all their lives (though not always consistent in attendance), but haven't ever gotten convicted by the Holy Spirit. They have been through a catechism class which confirms their indoctrination into the group. But, they are taught that only membership and continuous good works will get you into heaven.
But, they also teach that after you are gone, you can still have a chance if people will light candles ($1 a pop) and repeat vain prayers to dead people. Most of what they teach comes from their traditions, and has lithe to do with what Scripture teaches.
Salvation is easy. It does not require good works, or any kind of works. It only requires faith in the sacrifice of Christ which covers all sin.
I have no doubts that there are many saved Roman Catholics. but most that I have met are fully dependent on membership in the cult, not in a personal relationship with Jesus and leadership of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. ...
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