Was "Babylon The Great" a Symbolic Name for Jerusalem?

That is a very important statement to keep in mind when considering the following passages: and later in the same chapter of Luke, Jesus added:

"…I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation." (Luke 11:47-51 KJV)

That is pretty clear. Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of all the prophets, and at least some of the apostles. There is more in Matthew:

"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in yoursynagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." (Mat 23:34-36 KJV)

So, Jerusalem was not only responsible for the blood of all the prophets (and some apostles;) but for all the righteous blood shed upon the earth. And vengeance for that blood was required of the generation that Jesus was speaking to.

We all know that is exactly what happened within that generation: the Roman armies completely destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, fulfilling this prophecy by Jesus:

"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." (Mat 24:1-2 KJV)

But how do those verses compare to those on Babylon the Great found in the Revelation?

In the Revelation, Babylon the Great is also called the great whore, the mother of harlots, the great city, and the woman. In the context of blood responsibility, John mentions this:

"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." (Rev 17:6, KJV)

The first martyr of Jesus was Stephen, if I recall correctly; and there were many more. The next chapter reveals additional facts:

"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." (Rev 18:24, KJV)

But, according to Jesus, Jerusalem is supposed to be responsible for the blood of all the prophets; and Jerusalem is responsible for all the righteous blood? Yet, in the following verse we see that God avenged the blood of the apostles and prophets on Babylon the Great.

“Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.” (Rev 18:20, KJV)

1. Jerusalem killed many of the apostles, yet their blood was avenged on Babylon the Great

2. Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of all the prophets, yet their blood was avenged on Babylon the Great.

3. Jerusalem was responsible for the blood of all the righteous, yet Babylon the Great was responsible for "all that were slain on the earth."

There are many other references in the Revelation that tie Babylon the Great to old Jerusalem. This is one of many:

"And their dead bodies [the two witnesses] shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Rev 11:8 KJV)

It seem our Lord Jesus Christ was killed in both Babylon the Great and Jerusalem. It is difficult to imagine Babylon the Great being any other city than Jerusalem.

Yet I'm a Jew, and you seem to despise me. Do you despise me because I am not in love with Jews as an individual race, but only as members of the human race, like God instructs? If I single them out as special, I show respect of persons and therefore deny God. Are you trying to brow-beat me into denying God?

No. The words you write are a self-evidently anti-semitic. One rarely sees such vitriol directed against the Jews on Free Republic. That you blame the Jews for the Holocaust is inexcusable. I have finished with you. You missed the point of John 9 completely.

>>>No. The words you write are a self-evidently anti-semitic. One rarely sees such vitriol directed against the Jews on Free Republic. That you blame the Jews for the Holocaust is inexcusable. <<<

Show me where I blamed Jews for the Holocaust! You can’t, because you made it up. Was Morris Waldman, Executive Secretary of the American Jewish Committee, also anti-Semitic when he tried (twice) to stop Untermyer from his arrogant tirade? Are you going to sweep all history under the rug? Are you one who espouses the virtues of the rabbis, and refuses to heed the warnings of Moses?

I do understand you, and your blindness. You believe in Judaism first, and Christianity second. That is not only antichristian, but even anti-Jew. It is similar to Hagee-style apostasy. Attitudes like that will cause many Jews to suffer the consequences of not coming to Christ. It you love Jews so much, as you claim, then why are you not out there trying to convert them to Christianity, instead of letting them die in their sins?

>>>I have finished with you.<<<

I am very thankful for that. I am sick of your antichristian bigotry.

>>>You missed the point of John 9 completely.<<<

No I didn’t. You had no point.

>>>You missed the point; consider for a moment your assumptions are not true; you are then willfully guilty of the same heresy Paul, and the Holy Spirit, warned against.<<<

The only heresy around here is by those who deny Christ, which you seem to do on a regular basis.

You “point” about Paul’s warning only applies in the make-believe world of dispensationalism and other forms of futurism.

>>>When I previously asked you if your Presbyterian church supported the boycott of Israel you declined to respond.<<< I don’t generally support any boycotts crossing national boundaries. Recall the history of my people, for which some international Jewish big-shots organized an international boycott against Germany in the early 1930’s that turned the entire German nation against the Jews. We saw how that ended.

Since you asked, this is the post where you started blaming Jews for the Holocaust.

>>>Since you asked, this is the post where you started blaming Jews for the Holocaust.<<<

Your post is deceptive, as usual, because you did not provide any context. Wasn't there a famous Jewish support group (I believe it was called the American Jewish Committee) whose leadership tried to get Samuel Untermyer to stop his shenanigans? Twice? They were the ones with the experience with Hitler, and they warned him against that dangerous world-wide boycott, at a time when Germany was still recovering from Weimar and World War I. But that arrogant looney-toon, Untermyer went ahead with his boycott, anyway. This was Untermyer's public rejection of the American Jewish Committee:

"With this explanation of our aims, I appeal to the American Jewish Committee, whose public spirit and good intentions I do not for a moment question, but the wisdom of whose judgment I challenge, no longer to hold aloof but to rid themselves of their timid and ill-considered prejudices and join in actively pressing this boycott as our only weapon except the appeal to the League, which I shall discuss at a later time."

Untermyer was a self-aggrandizing creep.

So, who blamed who? Next time, provide some context.

By the way, some of my ancestors immigrated from the Palatinate area in the 1700's. They were some of the lucky ones.

Philip

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