Posted on 03/22/2014 1:35:03 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
Was "Babylon The Great" a Symbolic Name for Jerusalem?
Recall that Jesus said:
"… it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem" (Luke 13:33.)
That is a very important statement to keep in mind when considering the following passages: and later in the same chapter of Luke, Jesus added:
"…I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation." (Luke 11:47-51 KJV)
That is pretty clear. Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of all the prophets, and at least some of the apostles. There is more in Matthew:
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in yoursynagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." (Mat 23:34-36 KJV)
So, Jerusalem was not only responsible for the blood of all the prophets (and some apostles;) but for all the righteous blood shed upon the earth. And vengeance for that blood was required of the generation that Jesus was speaking to.
We all know that is exactly what happened within that generation: the Roman armies completely destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, fulfilling this prophecy by Jesus:
"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." (Mat 24:1-2 KJV)
But how do those verses compare to those on Babylon the Great found in the Revelation?
In the Revelation, Babylon the Great is also called the great whore, the mother of harlots, the great city, and the woman. In the context of blood responsibility, John mentions this:
"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." (Rev 17:6, KJV)
The first martyr of Jesus was Stephen, if I recall correctly; and there were many more. The next chapter reveals additional facts:
"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." (Rev 18:24, KJV)
But, according to Jesus, Jerusalem is supposed to be responsible for the blood of all the prophets; and Jerusalem is responsible for all the righteous blood? Yet, in the following verse we see that God avenged the blood of the apostles and prophets on Babylon the Great.
“Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.” (Rev 18:20, KJV)
And recall the first scripture at the top:
"… it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem" (Luke 13:33.)
So what do we know:
1. Jerusalem killed many of the apostles, yet their blood was avenged on Babylon the Great
2. Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of all the prophets, yet their blood was avenged on Babylon the Great.
3. Jerusalem was responsible for the blood of all the righteous, yet Babylon the Great was responsible for "all that were slain on the earth."
There are many other references in the Revelation that tie Babylon the Great to old Jerusalem. This is one of many:
"And their dead bodies [the two witnesses] shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Rev 11:8 KJV)
It seem our Lord Jesus Christ was killed in both Babylon the Great and Jerusalem. It is difficult to imagine Babylon the Great being any other city than Jerusalem.
Philip
>>>All established fact, is that your objection?<<<
Explain yourself, for the benefit of other readers.
Philip
I think that your posts have already established that you do not read anything that is posted.
.
>>>.Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:<<<
>>>Everyone should be more like you Preterists and allegorize everything right<<<
So God now dispenses his grace to us, forever; like the Church is forever.
What is your point?
Philip
>>Maybe the regathering was a scheme created by wealthy influential men<<
>>>That tinfoil hat is way too tight on you.<<<
More dispensational misdirection. Everyone, throughly research Samuel Untermyer. He was the Chuck Schumer of his time; but with afterburners.
Philip
>>>I think that your posts have already established that you do not read anything that is posted.<<<
Of course I did. And I requested proof of your strange claims, and you failed to deliver. Where’s the proof?
Philip
What is strange to you is normal!
(that is the standard of proof)
.
You re-quoted Hosea 14:4-9, with no explanation, whatsoever! I cannot read your mind.
>>>But then there are the preterists that refuse the entire word of God.<<<
I don't know about preterists, since I am not one. But it is obvious who ignores much of the word of God: the new age-cults, like the Roodies and the dispensationalists. They have created their own little world. Too bad for them that it is unbiblical.
Philip
I think Babylon the Harlot may very well be New York. Read Revelation. The things mentioned there when Babylon the Great has fallen, has fallen, sounds a lot like NY City.
>>>What is strange to you is normal!<<<
You mean like your post in #37, which reads:
“Rome slaughtered ALL of the apostles.”
I don’t believe interpretations of the scripture can get any more strange than that. Which one of the Roodies saw that vision from God? I mean, it is not in the scriptures, so it must have been derived from a vision from God, or an ouija board, or a crystal ball.
Philip
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I>/b>.
Now, who did Jesus pray to?
You really don’t get it do you? Paul liked “Dispensationalism” why don’t you?
Who was it then that killed the apostles?
Paul like dispensationalism? You are kidding, right? Paul would be railing against dispensationalists for preaching another gospel than the one he preached.
Where does Paul preach there was a Church Age? Where is the Dispensation of Human Government mentioned in the Bible? How about the Dispensation of the Kingdom?
It is all made up out of thin air.
Philip
>>>Who was it then that killed the apostles?<<<
For starters, Herod killed James, brother of John. Herod was a descendent of the evil Herod that wanted to kill the baby Jesus.
"Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people." (Acts 12:1-4 KJV)
Who was Herod, and where was James killed?
Philip
Besides Balaam, which prophets exactly do the Scriptures list that Jerusalem killed, and how many prophets are there ? Does your church hold to the Doctrine of Balaam also ?
Good point. We were told earlier that Babylon which is "Jerusalem" slaughtered the apostles and prophets and now it is Rome.
>>>John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I>/b>.<<<
>>>Now, who did Jesus pray to?<<<
That is a good question, but you did not answer my question. You grabbed one verse that supported your position and presented it. That is barely a cursory examination.
How about the following verses, taken in context:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1 KJV)
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 KJV)
"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." (John 1:10 KJV)
"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3 KJV)
That sounds like Jesus created the heaven and the earth and all its host. Of course, we can find "evidence" that Jesus is not the Father; and he did not claim to be the father at all times when he was on earth in the form of sinful flesh; that is, he didn't brag about it. But then there is this:
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:44 KJV)
So, no one can come to Jesus except the Father draw him. And we have these:
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:" (John 3:14 KJV)
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." (John 12:32 KJV)
So, who draws all men to Jesus: the Father, or Jesus himself? Or did the Father give all power, of drawing men to Jesus, after Jesus was lifted up? But if that is true, then the last day occurred before Jesus was lifted up? It is definitely confusing. Let's examine what Jesus said when pressed by Philip.
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" (John 14:9 KJV)
Frankly, knowing that Jesus created all things, and that he said he was the Father when pressed by Philip, I am sticking with Jesus being the Father.
Philip
V. 3; For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality (Hollywood movies, normalizing homsexuality)
V. 19; “Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! For in a single hour she has been laid waste.
My hope lies in V. 4, perhaps this points to the rapture; Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;...
Um, dude. Herod was a commissioned by the Roman ruler Claudias and was part of the Roman Empire. James was killed by the Romans in what was part of the Roman Empire.
You still haven’t answered the question. Who did Jesus pray to?
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