Posted on 03/05/2014 9:41:00 AM PST by tomsbartoo
Pope Francis has said that he could support civil unions between members of the same sex; but could not support same-sex marriage.
(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...
So to receive The Holy Eucharist you don’t need to comply with certain standards of behavior and thought (since your last Confession)?
I don’t know, Steve. You need to ask a priest. :-)
Actually, it’s not surprising to me as I am aware of many Catholics who believe themselves to be quite orthodox, who quite freely disagree with “The Church” on any number of issues.
There is no denying the influence of protestantism and relativism in the faith of some of the members of our Church.
Then there are those who are “more Catholic than the pope” who are sincerely ignorant of the enormous burden he carries. They are safe in their anonymity on this and other internet sites while passing judgement on every word that comes from him.
Do they not understand the significance of penance?
I don’t think they do because to be repentant and to offer penance one must begin with submission to Christ and to His Church.
I pray that during this season of preparing to celebrate Christ’s victory over death for our sake, those here, especially Catholics, will honestly assess their own sinfulness and thank God that we have such a great Savior in Jesus.
March 28, 2003, Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Moral conscience requires that, in every occasion, Christians give witness to the whole moral truth, which is contradicted both by approval of homosexual acts and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons. Therefore, discreet and prudent actions can be effective; these might involve: unmasking the way in which such tolerance might be exploited or used in the service of ideology; stating clearly the immoral nature of these unions; reminding the government of the need to contain the phenomenon within certain limits so as to safeguard public morality and, above all, to avoid exposing young people to erroneous ideas about sexuality and marriage that would deprive them of their necessary defences and contribute to the spread of the phenomenon. Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimization of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil.
In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.
June 3, 2003, Joseph Card. Ratzinger
This is the measure against which Pope Francis' recent statements must be judged.
The previous pontiff was much easier to understand, wasn’t he?
“This is the measure against which Pope Francis’ recent statements must be judged”
And the reason that sodomite civil unions will never be tolerated in the Catholic Church. Benedict’s words might as well be in the Catechism. That’s how much weight they carry.
*****Then you admire any liberal’s gentle approach to sin (which inevitably leads to encouragement and acceptance of it). *****
No, I admire Jesus’ gentle approach to sinners like Zacchaeus, and the woman who was going to be stoned.
Francis did not say that homosexuality was not a sin, nor did he give any support of their unions and he certainly did not hint that there is such a thing as “marriage” between homosexuals.
*****It seems that your faction is impressed by the mercy and forgiveness aspect of Christianity (that’s fine) but is blind to the prohibition and condemnation aspect starting with Adam and Eve, through the Ten Commandments, and on through the New Testament. *****
I find this so ironic considering the impression the world has of the Church is her unrelenting attitude regarding sin,
especially sexual sin!
One of the arguments that homosexuals and their apologists use to justify their sin is that Jesus never specifically condemned homosexuality. Abortion advocates like to use that same argument to justify their support of abortion.
Jesus is the mercy and forgiveness of God and much of His ministry was delivered with love and gentleness toward the sinner. Were His executioners repentant when He asked His Father to forgive them?
What many here don’t get is that this is a complex issue the Church must navigate within the mission Christ gave her. Pope Francis has said nothing to negate Church teaching, but he has said much regarding how we are to approach the sinner in calling them to repentance.
…John 13:34”A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35”By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Thank God that Jesus loved sinners, otherwise, what hope would I have?
Its funny to me that Protestants think they have any moral high ground to attack “gay” marriage after decades of their support of divorce and “remarriage”. Slightly better than two queers marrying but really not by much.
I understand your concern. I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear in my question. What I meant was, by sodomy, did you mean just homosexual sodomy as being one of the 4 sins...or heterosexual sodomy as well? Such as sodomy committed by a married couple. I ask because the word sodomy gets thrown around quite a bit here, but tends to ignore/excuse heterosexual sodomy.
Please. This is not about liking or not liking Pope Francis. He is the pope and I’m no sedevacantist. This is an issue relating to the public acceptance of homosexuality as being “normal and acceptable” behavior. And tragically, Catholics in this country and across the globe are buying into it. And it’s no wonder. When the bishops of this country had the opportunity to face it head on with the same sex marriage debate in many states, they wouldn’t even say the word “homosexuality”––much less teach that to engage in it was mortally sinful.
And this pope is doing the exact same thing as those American bishops. But what never ceases to amaze me is that he still manages to find Catholic apologists along the way that defend every word that comes out of his mouth. When the homosexual marriage bill was being debated in Venezuela, as an Archbishop, he proposed to his local conference that they offer a same-sex union bill as a compromise. The suggestion was completely rejected by his fellow bishop in their conference. You must know that the news of his position has been reported by countless sources since he was elected; but not once has the pope come out to deny it. Of course he doesn’t have to. He has his apologists that do it for him. But do think about it; if he was for it then, why is there such shock that he might be for it now?
Nevertheless, this particular post was an attempt to focus on just another one of the many statements that this pope has made that are inconsistent with Catholic teaching or worse. Predictably, the defenders of the pope (and I don’t mean the defenders of the teachings of the Catholic Church), man their battle stations and start blaming everyone else but the man who always creates the furor with his weak Catholicism or his confusing and ambiguous language (take your pick). His defenders then demand that those Catholics, who are desperately begging for a pope or bishop to defend the true teachings of the Church, prove the negative––prove that he didn’t mean what he appeared to say.
If this were simply a question about the popes’ stand on homosexuality, it might not be so bad. But it’s not. It’s much much more. It is about the pope’s responsibility to be faithful to all of the teachings of the Catholic Church. And if you honestly believe that he has been, and that all of the incredibly destructive problems that our Church has been having over the years is because the progressive media is taking a pope out of context, then I’ve been giving you far more credit than may have been warranted. This pope and all the previous popes following Pius XII (along with the bishops) are the very reason the wheels are coming off. But unless faithful Catholics speak out forcefully and demand that the bishops and popes of our time abandon their Modernism, we will continue to see a further degradation of what once was a great and powerful institution that fulfilled its mission of leading all souls to salvation.
This is a very interesting video...
Russia in Catholic Prophecy...
With the increasing tensions between Russia, the Ukraine, the EU and the United States, it is important to know that there have been many prophecies over the past 200+ years that deal specifically with Russia and her role as God’s instrument of chastisement upon sinful humanity as well as her role in the restoration of Holy Christendom. This short film covers prophecies that are both well known and those most have never heard of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4dzdS79jU
Sorry. I meant to say the pope came from Argentina, not Venezuela. I’m confusing my socialists.
“he proposed to his local conference that they offer a same-sex union bill as a compromise”
No he didn’t and the story has been discredited many times. You need to quit buying into the liberal spin being spread about Francis. He NEVER said he was for same-sex unions in Argentina or in the recent interview that’s being floated around. Prove your allegations.
“It is about pacts of cohabitating of various natures, of which I wouldn’t know how to list the different ways. One needs to see the different cases and evaluate them in their variety”.
The above words need to be read carefully. The Pope needs to see the “different cases” before he’ll say anything. In other-words if 50 year bachelor Tom wants his 80 year old mother on his insurance policy that will be one of the cases he would approve of. If Tom and Arnie are two homosexuals that want their civil union blessed by the Church, well then Tom and Arnie are out of luck.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-will-never-approve-homosexual-civil-unions
Specifically on the matter of homosexual civil unions, the Church’s teaching is laid out in a 2003 document approved and ordered published by Pope John Paul II and written by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was is currently Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
That document Considerations Regarding Proposals to give Legal Recognition to unions between Homosexual Persons, leaves no room for doubt on the teaching of the Church regarding homosexual unions. It says:
There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family. Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. Homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved”.
In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.
The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions
And what weight does this Vatican document ordered published by the Pope carry? Could the thrust of it be reversed by a future Pope?
To answer that I spoke with Professor Scott Nicholson, the Chair of the Theology at Our Lady Seat of Wisdom Academy, ranked one of the most faithful Catholic colleges in North America by the Cardinal Newman Society.
Professor Nicholson said that the document in question, issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, expressly approved by the Pope has the same status as the Catechism. (see ref. Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium 25, and On the Ecclesial Vocation of the Theologian, AAS 82, pp. 1550-1570) In theological parlance, they “participate in the ordinary magisterium of the successor of Peter.”
thank you.
All I can say is, what took him so long?
Oh, please. The Roman church has its own custom form of divorce, which is practiced extensively. Call it "annulment" or whatever, substantively it's still divorce.
I do believe that you are genuinely sincere in your comments to me, but you should really consider just what you are saying. You claim that what you believe is correct because you believe your sources; but you disbelieve what has been reported almost everywhere about Francis because you choose to disbelieve those sources. And the basis for your conclusions...??? Well you have no sound basis, you simply choose to believe the sources that support what you believe, So what’s new?
Consider this. If Francis does not support homosexual unions (measured, of course, by willingness or unwillingness to publicly condemn such unions), why has he not said so? His proposed compromise of the “lesser of two evils” was published in English as early as March 2013 which you say has been discredited. By whom? Pope Francis? Not at all. He has neither confirmed nor denied this report. So think about that. If any other public figure were accused of what might be considered improper conduct, but would never publicly admit or deny the facts of which they were accused, would you still believe their innocence? I doubt it. Most reasonable people would not.
But that is all that faithful Catholics are looking for. Do you not understand that if this pope were to come out tomorrow and boldly state that same sex unions are absolutely disordered in the eyes of God; that they such unions embrace the sin of sodomy, a sin that cries out to heaven for revenge, the discussion would be over? But the problem is that he does support them, and he has apologists like you who will claim that he has been misquoted or taken out of context.
Mark my words; the day will come sometime soon when this pope will acknowledge that he believes the position of the Church on same-sex unions should not be one of sinful condemnation; but rather, the role of reaching out in merciful understanding to our brothers and sisters who are all children of God (or some similar humanistic drivel). And on that day, you and the other apologists for this pope will not be saying that the traditional Catholics were right; you will be saying that the pope is right and that we must do what he says because we are all “Christians”. That is, unless you say he was misquoted again, and that’s entirely possible.
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