According to Scripture (Sola Scriptura)

http://www.catholic.com ^ | Tim Staples

[NKP_Vet]

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

[restornu]

Do you every consider layers when reading scriptures.

Meaning you can read something and the event that takes place might be current at the time, but it also might mean unfinished business that will take place maybe even centuries later (our time).

Or sometimes you can read a passage and recognize the same pattern is also going on now.

Every time one will read the scripture and when one returns later after many experiences in life many of those passage in scriptures will take on a whole new understanding.

I think you did yeomen’s work on studying history in the scriptures.

But to me these scriptures are also alive, even it some if it took place eons ago, much is still current today. It is like these lessons that are taught it seems like it will never end, but they will, and all our markers will be called in, and you hope you are not caught short.

I really do disagree with many of your assessment that it is finished and I must say some use that concept when Jesus was crucified saying temple was rent, when it was only the curtain, again I really do enjoy reading all the things you have gotten into and share them here.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>It is hubris to think that Christianity is doing any better.<<<

True. But how can we convince them that they are making the exact same mistakes? It is almost like one of the Jerusalem leadership of those days has left behind an instruction manual, it was found in the 1850’s, and a Joseph Smith like doctrine was invented from that manual. This is one person who thinks like me (mostly.) He is a Jewish Christian. His page is called Charisma Magazine.

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/standing-with-israel/6297-the-dangers-of-dual-covenant-theology

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>in a word, Supersessionism<<<

I am still not quite sure exactly what it means; but I believe the old covenants have been fulfilled for about 2000 years in Christ.

Covenant 1
In Acts 2:29-37, Peter explains how Christ ascended to the Throne of David to fulfill the David Covenant.

Covenant 2
In Acts 3:25-26, Peter explained how Christ fulfilled the Abrahamic covenant as the seed of the promise. As the seed of the promise, he inherited all of the promised land. And in him are all nations blessed, forever.

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

### Do you every consider layers when reading scriptures. Meaning you can read something and the event that takes place might be current at the time, but it also might mean unfinished business that will take place maybe even centuries later (our time). ###

No. I believe prophecy has a specific meaning. If it had multiple meanings, it would clearly say so and not rely on the imagination of men to reveal it.

>>>I really do disagree with many of your assessment that it is finished <<<

You obviously do not understand me. I do NOT believe it is finished. First, Satan has to be defeated, and then we have to stand before Christ.

The following is the timeline of events that I understand from First Corinthians 15:23-24:

“But every man in his own order:

1) Christ the firstfruits (the resurrection of Christ)

2) they that are Christ’s at his coming. (the first resurrection of 70AD)

*** I believe we are here, between the first and second resurrection. ***

3) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (the defeat of Satan, and the final resurrection and judgement, Rev 20:11-15)

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Jesus ate meat after His resurrection.<<<

Are you implying that flesh and blood CAN enter the kingdom of God?

[Elsie]

Third Nephi The Book of Nephi the Son of Nephi, Who Was the Son of Helaman

MormonISM is built on a foundation of SAND...

Restornu can ignore #381 and #382 and the following; but I can assure you that no one else is!

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...

only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

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Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

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*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

---

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Elsie]

You two are counting dancing angels while the BIG heresy in this thread continues to jabber away...

[Elsie]

112 And the bishop, Newel K. Whitney, also should travel round about and among all the churches, searching after the poor to administer to their wants by humbling the rich and the proud.

113 He should also employ an agent to take charge and to do his secular business as he shall direct.

114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those cities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the desolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.

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Seems like GOD can't get ANYTHING straight!

[Elsie]

Jesus has to assign us housing yet...LOL

I thought you assigned your OWN place; depending on how WORTHY you have been in keeping the Rules & Regulations of MormonISM?

[Elsie]

The problem is that you are talking about a different Jesus than we are.

So true...

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Mormonism is not Christianity. FYI -->

Christian churches teach belief in God as an eternal, self-existent, immortal being, unfettered by corporeal limitations and unchanging in both character and nature. In recent years, several Christian denominations have made studies of Mormon teaching and come to the conclusion that there are irreconcilable differences between LDS doctrine and Christian beliefs based on the Bible.

• Statement of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod
• Statement of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
• Statement of the Roman Catholic Church
• Statement of the Southern Baptist Convention
• Statement of the United Methodist Church
• Statement of the Assemblies of God Church

Some Mormons undoubtedly become Christians, and evidently leave the Mormon sect they were members of behind.

(Thanks to delacort for compiling this list)

Mormonism is not Christianity. FYI -->

Christian churches teach belief in God as an eternal, self-existent, immortal being, unfettered by corporeal limitations and unchanging in both character and nature. In recent years, several Christian denominations have made studies of Mormon teaching and come to the conclusion that there are irreconcilable differences between LDS doctrine and Christian beliefs based on the Bible.

• Statement of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod
• Statement of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
• Statement of the Roman Catholic Church
• Statement of the Southern Baptist Convention
• Statement of the United Methodist Church
• Statement of the Assemblies of God Church

[Elsie]

I don't believe that, I knew Jesus when I was in mainstream I knew his voice

---

      

 

 

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.'

 

 

 

 

 

 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.

For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.

 He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day,

 he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'

 

(LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

 

 

restornu; it seems like you are not on the same page as LEADERS of your CHOSEN religion.

 

I can see WHY you are in the 85% group!

[Elsie]

There is no individual "antichrist," since that term includes everyone of every religion (or no religion) that denies Jesus is the Christ.

But... but... Brigham said...

Is BrighamYoung lying?

"For unbelievers we will quote from the Scriptures - "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Again - "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God."

 I will now give my scripture - "Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God to reveal the holy Gospel to the children of men, and lay the foundation for gathering Israel, and building up the kingdom of God on the earth, that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist.......

 - BrighamYoung

 

[Elsie]

and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist

restornu; you probably don't agree with THIS 'prophet' either; but; I may be wrong.

(cue the crickets)

[Elsie]

There is no individual "antichrist,"

These are the only places that antichrist is mentioned.

 

 

 

1 John 2:18
  Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
 
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist —denying the Father and the Son.
 
1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist , which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
 
2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist .
 

[Elsie]

My personal opinion is that the Tradition of men during each council over the 800 years modified the scripture to fit the political climate.

This perfectly describes what you chosen religion is doing right now; blaming the RACISM, found in your history and SCRIPTURES on the surround world!

PATHETIC!

[Elsie]

It wasn’t the first time the reason for each dispensation was because the opposition got the Lord’s playbook and alter it!

You REALLY have no clue; do you!

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Color coding explanation:

 

Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff... 

 

JOSEPH SMITH translation

LUKE 3:4-11

 

 4 As it is written in the book of the prophet Esaias; and these are the words, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, and make his paths straight.

 5 For behold, and lo, he shall come, as it is written in the book of the prophets, to take away the sins of the world, and to bring salvation unto the heathen nations, to gather together those who are lost, who are of the sheepfold of Israel;

 6 Yea, even the dispersed and afflicted; and also to prepare the way, and make possible the preaching of the gospel unto the Gentiles;

 7 And to be a light unto all who sit in darkness, unto the uttermost parts of the earth; to bring to pass the resurrection from the dead, and to ascend up on high, to dwell on the right hand of the Father,

 8 Until the fullness of time, and the law and the testimony shall be sealed, and the keys of the kingdom shall be delivered up again unto the Father;

 9 To administer justice unto all; to come down in judgment upon all, and to convince all the ungodly of their ungodly deeds, which they have committed; and all this in the day that he shall come;

 10 For it is a day of power; yea, every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways made smooth;

 11 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 19 For it is well known unto you, Theophilus, that after the manner of the Jews, and according to the custom of their law in receiving money into the treasury, that out of the abundance which was received, was appointed unto the poor, every man his portion;

 20 And after this manner did the publicans also, wherefore John said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

KJV

Luke 3

 

  4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

 

 

King James Version of the Holy Bible

Public domain

[Elsie]

I am sorry CB they are not the originals they are copies of copies.

Just like EVERYONE of the Book of MORMON translations into a language OTHER than ENGLISH!

[Elsie]

If you don’t even believe the Hebrew and Greek copies of scripture we have available to us today are the inspired, infallible words of God you have nothing.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

[Elsie]

Even the masses never laid eyes on the written word until the 1500’s

And, none of the 'witnesses' ever laid eyes on...